Liston, Duran and Tyson - Quit Jobs, how do you judge them ?

It negatively affects their ranking, obviously. But i don't think it necessarily disqualifies them from being a great fighter or something.

 

I don't know if this was a quit job. It might have been, but Sonny was getting beat up pretty bad in there, and maybe he had a truly injured shoulder. Who knows?

Could have been a fix.

Duran was losing that fight badly, and if he had a flu bug or something else, I imagine that it would have looked like an uphill battle going 15 rounds. Stilll, I give Ray credit for the win, but I'm not sure what Duran's reasons were for retiring.

Tyson was a nutcase, and claimed that Holyfield was head butting him. Who knows what he thought.


How do you judge these actions ? How should we view these instances of pathetic cowardice ?

NO

Well, they have already been questioned many times.

Some of them yes, but not necessarily all of these circumstances sway my opinions.

I 'll have to think about it.

I don't know the circumstances of these fights.

 

A lot of us might want to quit if we were being beaten to bloody mess by a world class boxer. You should allways consider that before you start calling names.

It is verry easy to call sombody a gutless chump from your armchair but it isnt your brain getting mashed against the inside of your skull.

 

to me robertos effects his status the most, not because it was as bad as the others but because his whole personality was based off of his machismo. the acts by liston and tyson kinda just fit in with how everyone took them anyways

 

I'd disagree about Liston. Up till that point (Clay 1) he had a fierce reputation and his intimidation factor was legendary. I also don't think anyone quite envisioned Tyson biting Holy's ear off, it sure surprized me. This was prior to his arm breaking **** and other such crappy stuff. He fought clean vs Douglas and sooked a little in Holy I. I think it was after the Holy rematch we all knew anything could happen in there from then on regarding Tyson.

 

Top thread BTW Sonny. I quite enjoyed your descriptions

 

1) Tyson's was the worst of the bunch as he actually assaulted Holy with his freakin' chpppers!!!! Looked like a damn horse biting.

2) Duran quit in the middle of the round, not a good way to quit

3) Liston quit on his stool, claimed injury, happens all the time. In fight #2 maybe he could of got up, but it's better to quit on the canvas than to just throw up your arms. I've watched that phantom punch a bunch recently on U-tube (not the best definition), but it looks like Ali had his right down low, and then came up quickly and over Liston's guard. Looked real to me, but the kind of punch only Ali and a few others can pull off. Ali's power is strange, he knocked down Cleavland Williams (think it was the 1st KD) with a right hand while backpeddling quickly. Hard to get leverage on a punch like that but Williams dropped like a fly.

 

Regarding a poster saying a guy should just go out on his shield regardless about how bad things are going, to me it depends on the circumstance. Alexis Arguello, a true credit to our sport, quit against Pryor fight #II after being knocked down in the 10th. He had had enough, and he was thinking about his health and future, especially after the frightening outcome of fight #I. I commend him for his decision.

 

i didnt mean the ear biting was expected i just meant people knew tyson had personality and stability issues going into the fight. as for liston i agree that the first fight was a little unexpected but in my post i guess i was just concentrating on their second fight and the dive he took. thrown fights at that time werent that rare. also i am not trying to excuse any of these guys quitting but i think roberto quitting anything is even more shocking to me than mike biting off someones ear

 

Hey, no worries D40 and i get follow your reasoning. Roberto quitting was indeed a huge shock. That's a top tatt!

 

Just because they're great fighters, it does not mean they're above criticism. They all took the easy way out, let's not pretend otherwise.

Maybe Tyson was being butted, but he knew he wasn't winning the fight. His behaviour was appalling.

Duran was made a fool of in front of millions and couldn't take it.

Liston's fearsome demeanour failed to work against Ali, and he quit with his tail between his legs.

Tyson's actions were the most despicable, Duran's the most unexpected and Liston's the most pathetic.

 

Some great insights, but what's the difference between despicable and pathetic? I truly believe Sonny was told to throw the second fight and given what would have happened if he didn't i find it hard to hold against him. Tyson's action IMO is probably worse than Liston's, but i don't believe the biting out of anger, i favour it being a way out myself. If he really wanted to do something about Holy's alleged butting he had the option of making sure Holyfield stayed in front of him where he could try take his head off but he instead forced the issue the other way.

Just my opinion and a bit of deduced speculation i must admit.