Liston or Foreman: Who did you rate as the harder puncher?

It dosnt really matter. They were both about as hard punching as you could get and able to knock out world class fighters.

You might get people who argue Foreman was a tad bigger and therefore stronger or what have you but it's like arguing over what car makes a bigger hole in a wall.

 

Size is not the deciding factor. It's the skill of putting your weight behind a punch. Of all the fighters I've seen and I've seen them all since Frazier.....Foreman is by far the hardest puncher. It can be argued that fighters like Shavers who had quicker hands than George produced more snap thereby more chance of inducing a ko with one blow. Just in terms of pure power however it would be difficult for me to imagine a harder puncher than Foreman. Foreman was the only fighter I've ever watched that induced fear in me. The guy was brutal.

 

George was a freak. Even in his return he had that thudding power. He hurt Holyfield with a jab! Liston was a dynamite puncher, too and I think technically better than George as regards the snap you mention. But George was so physically strong he just bludgeoned people. I can't rate anyone higher than him either.

 

I'd like to know what Scrap Iron Johnson had/has to say about this, having gone into the seventh round with each in the span of a year, Sonny first.

Chuck Wepner took on Foreman about a year before Liston, and has made it pretty clear on camera that it was definitely Sonny for him. The body shot Liston decked him with was a massively driving right hand which knocked Wepner onto his backside with the sheer force behind it. [Foreman had stopped Chuck on cuts in three, just as Bugner would a year later. But prior to Ali, only Liston and Buster Mathis actually dropped Wepner.]

We can't always go by records here, but sometimes need to match footage against first hand opponent accounts as well. Scrap Iron was decked and stopped in two by Jerry Quarry the first time, but went ten rounds with JQ twice more in rematches separated by five years. George Johnson is somebody I suspect of maybe taking a few dives, but it seems his efforts against Liston and Foreman were honest enough.

Although Chuck's been known to spout crap, I think he's probably telling the truth about his experiences getting hit by both. He might also have a different opinion about getting hit by Foreman in a 1974 rematch [and after Wepner's surprising challenge of Ali, a 1975 rematch might have been a good way for George to get back on the horse after Kinshasa, and easy way to a seemingly impressive win, if he could power Chuck down quickly rather than beat him again on cuts].

Because of Ali's 1960's speed and elusiveness, I doubt he could speak with much authority on the power of Liston and Cleveland Williams relative to Foreman's, as they barely touched him.

 

Liston had the better jab

Can't imagine anyone with more raw power that can actually land than foreman

Bob sapp ?

 

It's on the level of a dick measuring contest. Boxing, and even knocking out people, is about a whole lot more than "power". I'm sure guys like Brewster and Rahman hit in the same league as Liston but they were lacking the other more important aspects to be actually great. This is not my original thought even, but one I have heard in as much words said by guys deep in the business.

 

I hear you, but the way I see it ....
"Punching power" can only be defined by knocking people out, or having some sort of similar dramatic effect upon landing. Otherwise it's just meaningless.
The less punches needed to do the job, the more the punch power on display.

People might object and say it's a matter of speed, timing, skill, accuracy etc. ..... but I say, when applied to punching, those are all aspects of power.

 

I read an article many years ago in either KO or Ring magazine that talked about Scrap Iron Johnson and the great punchers he had faced. Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier and George Foreman.

I remember Scrap Iron stated that Liston hit him the hardest. I was a tad suprised expecting him to say George Foreman.

 

I recall in one interview, if my memory serves me right, taken immediately after the 1st fight with Liston, Ali said Sonny landed one punch that really hurt him in one of the early rounds.

 

Thanks for the info, Senya. It's implausible that Liston didn't land anything at all of impact, looking at the footage. It was a bit more competitive than the whitewash of a literally shot Big Cat [who might have had more success reaching Muhammad with his left hook's combination of speed and power prior to his police encounter], but a single good shot is hardly a baseline to rely upon.

And to you as well ETM, much appreciated.

Yeah, that is a little surprising, as the footage most of us have seen of Sonny-Scrap Iron shows Liston uncharacteristically moving back as he closes the show from long range. [Not entirely certain this was an appropriate stoppage either. Scrap Iron clearly wasn't going to win, but he hadn't been halted by a nasty cut like the one Foreman inflicted, nor did he seem hurt by Sonny as Henry Clark was.]

However, we can't forget how young George was when his bouts with Wepner and Scrap Iron took place either. Yeah, he was already a big powerful guy, but hadn't reached full physical maturity yet, and may not have been as effective a power puncher as he became by his first title run.

Liston knew how to ram home the bombs on targets he could reach, and had pretty good technique, if not great speed. His jab-cross-hook combination to floor Leotis was a beauty, and you can hear the thud on every single one of those three shots. Listening to the impact of Sonny's blows in those late career ABC broadcasts against Martin and Clark when the crowd was quiet certainly lends a different element to the idea of his power. When his jabs connect, they sound like blocks of hardwood being knocked together.

Dying before Liston-Chuvalo could come off deprived us of another good opportunity to get a first hand account of his power to compare against Foreman's, as Wepner made it pretty clear that Sonny remained pretty forceful even as the 1970s began.

Jerry Quarry could have been another useful resource if Liston-JQ had come off as Sonny hoped after stopping Clark. Wouldn't have been a good move for Jerry though following the draw with Patterson, then the entry of both he and Floyd into the WBA tournament for their rematch. Too much risk for too little reward.

Foreman wanted no part of Jerry, while Liston was enthusiastic with Cosell about meeting JQ after Clark. [George is always evasive in his post fight interviews during his rise to contention when asked about Jerry. I don't think Foreman's modern admissions about purposely avoiding JQ then are mere charity to Jerry's memory, because of George's hesitance on camera back then about such a match. What he said and did then is congruent with what he says today.] I think Sonny realized that his jab and long range boxing could have been well suited for JQ. He wasn't going to get suckered tailing into Jerry's ropes and corners counter bait like Spencer and Patterson had been, and like Foreman might well have been.

 

For pure power, Young George Foreman(1969-1972) was the second hardest hitter of all time. He hit Wepner so hard, that from the percussion of the blow, Wepner's eye bone swelled up so fast that it was sticking out of his eye.

 

There's really no way of telling, and as some have already mentioned it doesn't much matter.

 

Ali was asked a similar question and i think his answers were, Liston was the scariest, Frazier the toughest and Foreman the hardest hitting....or something like that