Liston over Marciano - Can Anyone Sanely...

Perhaps, but I belive Charles and Walcott are a step over Patterson imo. They fought the big fights, top contenders of there era, and for the most part, no soft touchs in title defenses. Patterson always strikes me as one of thsos champs that didnt relly defend against the best. Kinda of like Willard or Dempsey in that regard.
I think Fraizer over Ali or Corbett over Sullivan or even Marciano over Walcott/Charles were bigger wins than Liston over Patterson.

 

Walcott and Charles are certainly bigger wins.

Moreso, how does someone rate Liston #3 with his single successful title defence and the under-whelming cast of contenders he laid waste to? But I think we have had these discussions on the this board about a dozen times. Facts and relevance are in the end of little concern and mythbuilding takes precedence every time.

 

We have about 3 or 4 trends on this anyway. sure its 50 plus pages back.

 

I agree. The best fighters Liston fought were generally younger than the best Marciano fought, and Liston tended to beat his comp in more dominating fashion.

 

Marciano beat past prime versions of Walcott and Charles, and was given hell against both of them in 3 out of 4 fights, Liston dominated a prime Patterson and knocked him out in one round, twice. I rate Patterson close to Walcott and Charles on my All Time HW list. I'm more impressed by Listons wins over Patterson.

 

Liston never fought Johansson, who certainly was the #3, behind the #2 Patterson. It wasn't really his fault but i do think Marciano has the claim to the cleaner run here. Also, Marciano didn't flop like Liston did in his second title defence. I think those two make the difference, with most emphasis on the latter.

 

I wonder what happens when Liston lands anything on Rocky's chin. The hardest puncher Rocky faced was Walcott, who is not in Liston's league as a puncher. Liston at least faced Williams.

 

The manner,?? Dempsey Willard??? Foreman Frazier?? Tyson Spinks??

I put Patterson as "Champion" a bit above say Willard(Willard sat on the title) but some were around Dempsey, and way below Marciano, Louis, Ali ete. Guys that fought the best. Sure Ingo comes into it, but Cus still though he got a soft touch there.

Walcott and Charles may have been past "Primes" perhaps, but mental they were hard to crack at the time. Marciano didnt land 1 or 2 punchs, he had to beat them down. That was more than what Tyson or Liston dish out most times. Williams was not fighting on with his face shallow up like Ezzard Charles, IE, eyes close, bump on neck, cheeks smash in. After Williams took a good shot from Liston, he went down and didnt get up.

 

I put Jess Willard in the top 30 imo. Yes he sat on the title. but Wins over Jack Johnson, Well that was about the only win worth mention. But I add points for Willard on his way out vs Dempsey. I dont see many heavyweights going on in the shape Willard was vs Dempsey, getting beat down like he did, and not lasted 1 round, but 3, before the towel was thown.

One of best type of gut showings EVER imo. Patterson didnt show that imo. Perhaps Ali, but not to the extant of the Dempsey Willard fight.

 

Marciano definitely accomplished more. But if they fought prime for prime? Marciano was fairly easy to hit and was decked by lesser hitting guys. I think Liston might bounce him a la "Down goes Frazuh! Down goes Frazuh!"

 

Liston never fought a puncher like Marciano, Please dont say Big Cat Williams, Marciano Ko'd Keene Simmons and the Cat went the full route a yr later, besides Marciano had 15 rd power. Liston had the mean look but he folded vs Ali, so was he really that tough, he did Ko Patterson early twice but Floyd was admittedly intimidated. Sorry not fully impressed with Sonny he did not go out so well...He fought Marshall young, even though Marty was a lightheavy and lost to Leotis late...In betwenn he quit and took a dive over Ali...Would Ali have his hands full vs Marciano Oh YEa...Tyson looked Great on his way to Douglas but repeated the pattern in tough fights with Evander, Lewis, Danny Williams, Mcbride.....Its something inside that comes out in tough fights...a crack..Sonny Showed the crack so did Iron Mike...Marciano showed there was no crack in his armor.....could Sonny give Rocky a tough fight Yes...Could he beat Marciano,Louis, Dempsey,Ali on a good night,like Douglas did vs Tyson, possibly, could he fall under pressure like he did vs Ali...Yes....did he suffer from that Bully Syndrome...Looks that way....He could give but he was not the best in the take it department

 

Christ Almighty, are we the only two people who know these things and see reality?

I'm not saying Marciano gets a walkover vs. Liston. However, he would be Liston's best opponent, including the very green Clay he fought. Even a close to prime Ali admitted he would have had his hands full against Marciano.