Liston over Marciano - Can Anyone Sanely...

THe word for you is delusional ... there is no rational argument.

Marciano weighted 184 when he won the title. Liston weighted 215 ... start from there.

 

Liston was 220 when he was KO'd by 199lb Leotis Martin, He was 212 to Burt Whitehurst 190lbs when he failed to stop the man that Archie Moore Ko'd X and he was 220 when he failed to stop Billy Joiner who was Ko'd by Mac Foster in 5 and he outweighed Ali in both fights that he lost and he outweighed Marty Marshall by 24lbs in the fight he lost and got his jaw broke in one fight Marshall weighed 179lbs and like I said Marshall was KO'd 2X by Dembrell Davis who Archie Moore KO'd in 1, What is your point,

 

I think Marciano had the power to knock Liston out. The size difference is not insurmountable but it is relevant. No one can write off the chances of either man here.

 

Marciano had the power to hurt anyone ... no question there ... the issue is over coming huge disadvantages while trying to land effectively ...

 

Getting past the reach would be an issue but Marciano was a good boxer so he will land some effective punches.

 

For those who are interested in their respective fighting weights, I say Liston weighs in at 212 1/4 for this fight, with Marciano tipping the scales at 187 1/2 ...... that makes Liston the heavier man by 24 3/4 pounds.

 

It isn't the fact the liston is bigger that makes him the favourite in my eyes.

It's the fact that, imo, liston is just as effective an infighter as rocky was whilst holding a weight advantage.

For example I think dempsey would beat vitali because he's an exceptional inside fighter who's proven against super heavies whilst vitali is a **** infighter who's shown weakness to smaller opposition.

 

but you are putting a lot of stock into it though aren’t you? you are saying "if all things are equal go with the man with the extra pounds" when you could as easy say "the extra pounds might slow him down" if the pace wont suit him. You could also go with the one with more heart, is going to be more effective inside and sets the pace. Liston was less proven at elite level and was more conventional, less fast and half as experienced as the best fighters marciano beat. Liston at his best was only 10lb heavier than walcott who was a more complete all round fighter.

That’s an opinion but it is failing to acknowledge the difficulty marciano presents inside. Up close at half an inch taller than joe walcott, liston at close range wont be needing that reach advantage and will need far more room to get full purchase on his punches compared to marcianos short shovel hooks. therefore It is clear to me marciano has full power inside where he is effective and liston is less effective. Liston has an edge outside where he has full power but he cannot hope to be as effective with slower hands than the men rocky beat against rockys side on crab stance.

Liston was a better inside fighter than vitali but marciano could be as effective as dempsey. inside the man with the best engine, who hurts more with shorter punches always wins.

 

We should ask the mob, they wouldnt let Rocky fight someone who had the edge over him, which Liston had.

 

Liston was 198lb as a grown man in 1953. sonny at 198 could have been as old as 29 years old since many recon by 1964 Liston was as old as 40. what ever age he was sonny was no gowing boy when he turned pro.

Liston trained for power and got bigger bulking up but it did not make him better any more than joe Louis was better at 215lb than he was at 199lb.

 

The mob own Marciano's boxing money wise. Al would have dealings with them and vice vesa(But than again the mob did own boxing pretty much, every one from Jack Dempsey to Joe Louis had dealings with them)

But as for picking and chooseing fights, fixing fights, they pretty much stay away from that in regards to Marciano. Marciano was one of them race wise, and they wanted him to stay clean for role model wise.

 

I think people give the mafia too much credit. The way it works is they own people or territory’s. officially nobody can say so but since they actually do own people and therefore have parts of the rackets people they own are involved with everyone in each racket they infest must pay a tribute.

For instance, at one time to break into Madison square garden a fighters manager had to take on a "partner". some piece of dog **** who "belonged" to the man behind the scenes. This man "behind the scenes" just gets paid, he doesn’t do anything. there is nothing sophisticated about it.

The mob is basically a rust that once invited into a situation corrodes what ever racket it infests. the mob infested all of boxing.

when it comes to world title fights the mobs share continues with the title not the fighter. They do not need to fix title fights because just like don king with his "options clauses" they continue to have shares with everyone involved in title fights regardless.

If each rated contender is forced into having "a partner", each champion already has "a partner", the controlling promoters have "partners", The guy with the lease on the arena, entire town, casino or whatever are all forced to have "partners" then the mob has an interest in the entire fight game. They dont need to ensure who actually wins the title fights if they effectively own the title, the parts of the promotion, parts of all the managers, the fighters, etc etc etc.

the mob did not control boxing in the Hollywood sense, they did not have to. If they unofficially owned the champions and had a piece of all the managers in all the arenas they protected they did not have to fix anything.

maybe fights down the card were thrown, in fact there is lots of evidence that there was but actual title fights, why? Too much heat.