Liston over Marciano - Can Anyone Sanely...

That's the thing though, if I felt liston couldn't take the pace them all things wouldn't be equal. I think liston will be more effective on the inside and after rocky feels liston's power it will be liston setting the pace. I see liston as better fundamentally than rocky.

I think liston will be punching with considerably more power than the rock. He has never showed weakness punching down close with an opponent.

I think liston will be setting the pace, punching harder and controlling range at times throughout the fight. Rocky's main advantage is workrate and stamina but all that means is the fight will go on for longer and the ebb of rocky's resistance will fade slower.

I think liston is just as good if not better than the rock skillwise anyways. The size advantage just removes my doubt.

 

Moore knocked him out 2 times, Liston nearly did once not that Whitehurst is a great opponent so lets not give out medals but Archie took him out 2X and Sonny did not

As far as Williams most of the experts I know call him overrated as a puncher and a fighter but let me ask you what were his KO wins that impressed you so much that you call him one of the greatest punchers ever ? Do you think that he was?

 

Now that is a raciest statement if I ever heard one the Mob has only one color and that's Green, Marciano was a clean cut kid and would not play foul ball, Liston was a thug and one of them so it was all about the Green for him, Now whether he threw the fight against Ali or just quit we will never know but if you look at Marciano's KO wins over Moore,Lastarza,Charles,Layne,Vingo,Matthews, Louis, etc. I don't think a gun outside the ring had anything to do with it...they were KTFO

 

Stylistically its really bad for Rocky, he's a swarmer and a small heavyweight, running into listons super strong left jab and what ever else he decides to throw is suicide and rocky couldnt out finesse anyone lol

 

its debatable. handling patterson inside is not comparable to rocky.

Liston was conventional in that his dimentions lended themselves to conventional boxing unsing othadox punches and combinations. marciano had poor fundamentals? Did he make mistakes that could be exploited? He was not conventional but fundamentally he was effective in all departments. fundementally a fighhter wins if he is effective enough to win a fight.

he is 20 pounds heavier but this does not mean he hits harder since marciano knocked out more elite 1950s fighters and both fought in the same era.

again this is comparing marciano to an already stunned harris or patterson who were caught at range, mauled and pounded inside. there is a long list of reasons why marciano wont get caught outside and also why he would not be so easily stunned.

You elect to not mention marcianos two handed power capable of knocking out and registering some of the most chilling knockouts at elite level recorded on film. You are entitled to feel Liston hits harder but not entitled to think marcianos power wont count at all because it always did.

I agree liston was good at what he did and largely as effective as marciano. Both had the skill to land their best punches and get the job done. Liston with long arms is pleasing to the eye landing long corect punches and shortening blows off the jab but does that mean he is more skillful? marciano awkward and ugly by comparison but equaly effective using what he had. isnt there a skill in drawing a longer fighter onto uncordinated shots that always seem to land and nobody sees coming? Often pleasing to the eye can be predictable. ugly is always unpredictable yet more than a measure of skill is needed to keep getting away with it.

 

The mob possibly had 80% unofficial share of Liston plus all the money their "partners" in the promotions, tv etc always brought in. with clay they would have less of his purse. Clay was also a black Muslim who after the Patterson fight was forced to fight in Canada, England and Germany because he was not that popular. clay was out of the mobs reach for those promotions.

Liston as a champ could have fought anywhere. They could "lease him out". The mob had the lion share of his purse and could dictate to where sonny fought, places where they had larger shares and more control. Anyone staging liston fights paid them rent.

the mob never really went away. Even now its all sewn up with money borrowed from the old strong arm guys.

 

i'm inclined to agree personally but may be worth a discussion

 

Never said it was.

Never said his fundamentals were poor.

Realistically speaking it isn't up for debate that liston punches harder.

I didn't make that comparison, you just did.

It's hw boxing, it should be taken for granted that one punch could end proceedings.

Yeah I still liston as a better fighter both inside and out. The weight is a bonus.

 

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I not talking about fixng fights like the WWE does.

The mob own boxing. They got a cut out of every fight. What race was Lucky, Al and Joe Messia?
Most of the mob was italian born.

 

The Mob was mostly Sicilian back in the day but guys like Lamotta grew up in those neighborhoods and they wanted Lamotta to take a dive against a black guy, they did control some of the boxing people but a lot of the business people were Jewish or irish, The Sicilians and the Jews and the Irish,Black etc. were all color blind when it came to money and like the politicians today there favorite color is Green and birds of a feather flock together no matter what color they are

The only way they could use you was for you to take a dive, certain guys just could not do it.....Louis never did,Marciano never did and many other prideful guys could not

 

even though it is a long time since I read it Nick Tosches wrote an awful book where he quoted it as fact that marciano v moore was fixed for marciano to retire undefeated. after that how can you take him seriously?