Liston v Marciano's Top Opposition?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Liston73, Jul 6, 2022.


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  1. Liston73

    Liston73 Active Member banned Full Member

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    Apropos of Joey wills interesting thread .
    Sonny Liston is matched here against Rocky's major opponents as they were when Rocky beat them.
    Rex Layne

    Joe Louis

    Ezzard Charles1.

    Ezzard Charles2.

    Joe Walcott1.

    Joe Walcott 2.

    Roland Lastarza1,


    Roland Lastarza 2.

    Archie Moore

    How does he do?
     
    Liston73, Jul 6, 2022
    Liston73, Jul 6, 2022
    #1
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  2. billyb71

    billyb71 Member Full Member

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    Liston beats them all.
     
    billyb71, Jul 6, 2022
    billyb71, Jul 6, 2022
    #2
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  3. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    At what point of his career would he face the first opponent?
     
    70sFan865, Jul 6, 2022
    70sFan865, Jul 6, 2022
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  4. Liston73

    Liston73 Active Member banned Full Member

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    Lets simplify this and say everything is identical will that do you?

    For what its worth Liston fought Patterson for the title in his 35th fight.
    Rocky fought Willis Applegate11-14-2unranked

    Liston's 24th fight Mike DeJohn ranked no 9
    Marciano's Phil Muscato180lbs 56-20-0 lost last 5.unranked,
    Liston's 30th fight Roy Harris 29-1-0 ranked no7.
    Marciano's Ted Lowry 67-57-10 unranked.
    Liston's 31st fight Zora Folley 51-3-2 ranked no 2.
    Marciano's Johnny Schkor 30-18-2 unranked.
    Liston's 32nd fight Eddie Machen 32-2-1ranked no3
    Marciano's Ted Lowry 67-57-10 unranked .
    Of course you give these stats the gravitas you think they deserve.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
    Liston73, Jul 6, 2022
    Liston73, Jul 6, 2022
    #4
  5. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Clean sweep.
     
    swagdelfadeel, Jul 6, 2022
    swagdelfadeel, Jul 6, 2022
    #5
  6. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Moore, Charles and Walcott each beat the Champion Ali fought.

    Sonny beats everything else though.
     
    choklab, Jul 6, 2022
    choklab, Jul 6, 2022
    #6
  7. Liston73

    Liston73 Active Member banned Full Member

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    That was not the question.
     
    Liston73, Jul 6, 2022
    Liston73, Jul 6, 2022
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  8. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    It is the question.

    Sonny has to be as good for nine fights to beat that lot.

    nobody Sonny ever beat was as good on the night as Walcott was against Marciano. And Walcott is four fights in. Career prime Moore is opponent number 9.

    career prime Moore against career prime Foley? Who wins that fight?

    Sonny has to be as good each time for more fights than he was in real life.

    How good was Floyd the nights Sonny fought him? How was Floyd mentally going in there?

    beating Machen, Foley, Harris and Patterson, on the nights he fought them, could realistically be a level bellow Charles, Moore, Walcott …and even old Louis.

    These kinds of questions..It’s like assuming somebody replicates the Holmes reign. They have to beat the same guys in that order to match it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
    choklab, Jul 6, 2022
    choklab, Jul 6, 2022
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  9. Liston73

    Liston73 Active Member banned Full Member

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    In my thread I ask the questions,and you answer or do not answer them.
    Marciano has to be good every time he fights Liston's opposition does he not?
    For what its worth Liston fought Patterson for the title in his 35th fight. How good was Paterson? He was the reiging worlds champion.38-2-0 How much better could he be?
    Rocky fought Willis Applegate11-14-2unranked

    Liston's 24th fight Mike DeJohn ranked no 9
    Marciano's Phil Muscato180lbs 56-20-0 lost last 5.unranked.

    Liston's 30th fight Roy Harris 29-1-0 ranked no7.
    Marciano's Ted Lowry 67-57-10 unranked.

    Liston's 31st fight Zora Folley 51-3-2 ranked no 2.
    Marciano's Johnny Schkor 30-18-2 unranked.

    Liston's 32nd fight Eddie Machen 32-2-1ranked no3
    Marciano's Ted Lowry 67-57-10 unranked .
    Apart from his 2 fights with the consensus number one all time heavyweight.
    In which of these 9 fights with
    DeJohn
    Williams
    Williams
    Valdes
    Harris
    Folley
    Machen
    Patterson
    Patterson

    Did Liston underperform? You have your answer! lol
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
    Liston73, Jul 6, 2022
    Liston73, Jul 6, 2022
    #9
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  10. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Liston had been a pro almost ten years by then. Nine years to have 34 fights. So It took Sonny longer to reach that point.

    Its not a fair comparison. Sonny had more years to mature into world level.

    Whereas by the 35th fight Marciano was comparatively inexperienced. Taking him three years to have that number of fights.

    best to look at both men as they beat their first world level guy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
    choklab, Jul 6, 2022
    choklab, Jul 6, 2022
    #10
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  11. Liston73

    Liston73 Active Member banned Full Member

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    BS By definiton the experience was equal 35 fights ! Plus Liston had the prison hiatus and was out of boxing fro 2 of those years sothat makes it 7 years. Plus he did not have the luxury of his manager being MSGs matchmaker and being fed a steady diet of stiffs. You are spouting rubbish!
    Liston was fighting Johnny Summerlin18-1-2 and 18-2-2 in his 7th and 8th fights!
    We are done here, I want to debate with sensible people, who don't have long standing agenda's to parade.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
    Liston73, Jul 6, 2022
    Liston73, Jul 6, 2022
    #11
  12. Noel857

    Noel857 I Am Duran

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    Neither had a great resume but Liston beats everyone Rocky did debatable Marciano beats Williams and Machen
     
    Noel857, Jul 6, 2022
    Noel857, Jul 6, 2022
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  13. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I would have to respectfully disagree with this.

    You would have to base this on what Machen and Williams did. put the best wins of Machen and Williams out there. It won’t match a win over Moore.

    Harold Johnson beat Machen. Satterfield beat Williams. Moore beat both.
     
    choklab, Jul 6, 2022
    choklab, Jul 6, 2022
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  14. Noel857

    Noel857 I Am Duran

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    Moore was a light heavy weight and old
     
    Noel857, Jul 6, 2022
    Noel857, Jul 6, 2022
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  15. Liston73

    Liston73 Active Member banned Full Member

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    Liston beat Bethea ranked no8 in his19th fight .1st rd ko becoming the only man to ever stop him
    In his 19th fight Marciano fought Pete Louthis 32-13-5 won 1 of last 6.
    If two men have had 35 fights they are at the same level of experience. If one of them has been fed a diet of stiffs should the other be penalised for fighting live opponents? There is no argument here!
     
    Liston73, Jul 6, 2022
    Liston73, Jul 6, 2022
    #15
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