Liston is certainly a "greater" heavyweight but boxing is styles and I think Dokes here has the attributes tp upset and possibly stop a prime Liston. Of course, I am taking for granted that Dokes would train and not be using. However, Dokes possessed the recipe to defeat Liston: speed, aggression and punch variety. I think the old dinosaur would lose his pace and control against him.
Dokes' biggest problem here would be his suspect chin. Frankly, I think a big shot from Liston could have put him to sleep early. Dokes had good boxing and athletic ability, but he'd be over his head in this one I think.
Pre-30 yrs old, the only guy who stopped him was Coetzee who had a huge right hand in a fight in which Dokes was at the end of a coke bender. Mike Weaver tagged him plenty (even in the first fight landed some big hooks) and Dokes wasn't much worse for the wear. Getting past his prime, a young, hungry Holyfield hit him with huge shots that took many rounds to take him down. By Ruddock he was well on to his 30's and the drug abuse and lack of training were starting to take a huge toll. I think a sober, focussed Dokes takes a pretty decent shot.
I like liston big here. I think it takes more than speed, aggression and punch variety to beat Sonny. Ali didnt beat him with speed of hand or foot, but with incredible head movement. Ali made Liston miss then countered from angles Liston had never encountered as he fell in. It wasnt till Sonny lost confidence that Ali really took over in about the fourth round. Listons jab was until Ali fairly accurate so i dont think dokes would have the latitude to use his hand speed or punch variety, Floyd Patterson certainly had speed and was a great combo puncher but this certainly didnt help him. This said i am a bit of a dokes fan and think he is an underrated fighter here on ESB
Dokes would have a better shot in a contest between him and Liston deciding who can abuse their bodies at a faster rate. Dokes was never much of a mover and that was what you needed to deal with Liston. Fast hands isn't enough. Machen, Clay, even McMurray in 68 and Martin in '69 knew that the way to beat Liston is to hit him hard but do so on wheels. How many HW champs have legs like Clay? None. Which is one reason why I favor 1959 Liston over just about every HW champ except Ali. Liston had too much firepower and a surprising array of skill if you know what you are looking at. Dynamite Dokes would be deposited downwards.
Dokes would give Liston a couple of good rounds, then Sonny destroys Michael around the third round.Michael just didn't have the ability to totally challenge Sonny.
Again, I think you are serious over-rating Liston and under-rating an optimal Dokes but am I surprised? I do appreciate the foot speed argument. That seems to hold some water. I think Dokes had plenty more going for him than Machen so there is certainly gave Liston some problems. And Liston would certainly get tagged but if Dokes hung in there to admire his work, yes, there would hell to pay. I just think it would be a much harder tussle than the rest of you.
one of dokes biggest flaws people havnt mentioned yet his his inability to avoid a jab. larry holmes commented on that when sparring with dokes. i think dokes would get seriousely busted up by listons long jab.
I agree with you that Dokes is underrated... and I for one have a very high opinion of his performance against Evander at age 30 back in '89. He was strong and had good hand speed. He also had more skill than your average HW. I believe that Liston would stop him, but that is not necessarily reflective of my "underestimating" Dokes. Part of Dokes' problem was that he seemed to pull his punches often when he was throwing combinations -I never thought much of flurries, especially when you are a HW who can otherwise swat. Dokes, at times, seemed to care more about throwing fast shots than hard shots.
I like Dokes and his fight with Holyfield was great. But Liston hits too hard and he has too great of a jab for Dokes to last the distance.
