Liston vs Foreman in a slugfest.

To be fair, Patterson did nothing he was said to have trained for. Here's an account from a sparring partner "He never did the things he trained all those months to do. It wasn't that he couldn't do them. He did them, beautifully just a few days before the fight." That's not to say he would've won of course, but I do think he could've given a much account of himself had he not been paralyzed with fear.

 

I’ll take Foreman. I think Foreman is the ultimate Slugger.

 

Power, chin and mentality between the 2 are evenly matched I'd give an edge to Liston based on having a better jab but it really is a 50/50.

 

To me that's boxing tho.

If someone is so intimidating an opponent is speculated to have been so paralysed with fear he were unable to perform at all then that's credit to the victor IMO. Same with Tyson's win over Spinks.

That's my take. Doing things and getting off in sparring against rumpers comparative to the upcoming monster you are to face means nothing.

 

Liston wasn’t quick. Not much difference there imo.

 

Could go either way. I might lean towards Liston due to better boxing ability, but it's pretty much a 50-50 fight in my eyes.

 

I think Liston was deceptively quick in his younger days. Dundee, and Ali both said the same thing. He also threw much straighter punchers, than Foreman's roundhouse ones.

I would give Foreman the edge in foot speed though.

 

Being scared and freezing against your opponent is credit to the victor, but it doesn't tell us as much. For example, everyone thought Liston was going to KO Machen in the first, but he was taken the distance. Sure a KO1 result, would've been better on paper but going 12 rounds with Machen, displaying the boxing skills, many thought he was incapable of told us more.

 

Don´t know about Foremans foot speed, but the thing about Foremans wild punches is true I believe. In fact thats always a thing to keep in mind in fantasy fights with GF against Lewis, Joshua, Wilder, Tyson or Liston as well. Even punchers chances of fighters like Tua, Bonecrusher, Bruno, Rahman, Sanders are higher at sloppy openings like that. Foreman got away with that flaw until he met raw power against Lyle, had a size advantage prior many times too.

Put exactly that Foreman into the division today with some solid punchers (even younger Dubois), he had to adept quicker than in the 70s imho to not get hurt too often.

 

Yes, I have turned a corner on this. I lean more toward thinking this is the right view now. At one time I thought that beating a paralysed man took credit from the victory when credit should also go with the producing factor of the paralysis.

 

Thought I responded earlier but their was one man in his own era who could've potentially exploited this flaw (though he almost certainly would've lost); Jerry Quarry.

 

We had a loooong discussion with that SerbianFellow about Quarry and Foreman ^^ The thing is: If Quarry lands on GF (exploits the flaw), what happens? Prob not much. It needs more power to shake George. Imho Foreman would stomp Quarry.

 

I agree, he had the ability to exploit the flaw, but not the power to dent (though Quarry did have decent power) Foreman's chin. Foreman would probably just find Quarry annoying rather than, an insurmountable challenge. Foreman would probably stop him before the 5th.

 

I'm not sure everyone thought Sonny would KO Machen in 1 tho to be fair Ingo did just that. I did think Sonny showed some of his boxing skills against Whitehurst. Just to confuse another flipside again might give weight to claims he was poor at cutting off the ring and might well have stopped Machen if he could have put more pressure on.

I must watch this one again Swag as it's been a long time.

 

Yes he did. He also showed off his boxing skills against Williams as well, but this answered the question of how he would approach a cute boxer, and showed he wouldn't just get frustrated, and start throwing things at the wall hoping they stick, like some limited brute. He remained calm, shortened his punches, and easily went 12 rounds without any dramatic fatigue. Though to your point, he also showed some or all of these qualities to at least some degree against Whitehurst.

I doubt it tbh. Machen wasn't there to win. He was there to survive. Had he approached the fight as aggressively as he did against Ingo, I've no doubt he would've been stopped.

I haven't watched it in a while myself my friend.