Liston Vs Frazier and Tyson: Would he really win?

Liston is terrible for Frazier. His punches are more compact and direct that Foreman's and he his power comparable. He also showed he could prioritise a devastating uppercut when the occasion warranted it. Liston TKO 4-5.

 

Liston is far more precise and accurate with a wider range of combinations than Ruddock.

 

True. And also 30lbs smaller.

 

Yes and the same weight as Mike Tyson, Tyson wouldn’t be able to push him back and bully him because if he did, he’d walk onto the precise power punches of Liston who would be standing his ground with his feet allowing him to keep power, Tyson would have to take a more cautious approach here and look to be more economical and set up attacks more rather than forcing it as he he was able to get away with against smaller men or men way below the level of Liston.

I give Tyson a chance if he’s careful and looks to set up attacks rather than bulldozing.

 

Speed difference. Tyson will land 3 for every 1 that Liston lands.
Liston may be the same size as Tyson.. but he fought smaller guys all his career, while Tyson fought bigger guys all his career. Watching film is very misleading. There is no way in hell Tyson gets outbrawled by anyone his size or smaller.

 

Standing ground doesn't generate power.
Liston was a front foot attacker.
He was one of the best to step into the jab.
This standing ground and holding feet talk doesn't make any sense. It's not what was captured on film.

 

Planting your feet does allow you to generate more power than if you’re on your toes, which is what I meant.

 

Liston walked Patterson down. He wasn't holding ground because Patter was retreating. Bad strategy but he couldn't do anything about it being weaker and smaller.

Liston never beat nobody like Frazier and certainly not like Tyson.
Theres no tape that indicates how he would handle someone like Fraizer

 

Liston and Frazier both fought out of Philadelphia. That's a small world. Both would know almost everything they'd need to know about the other man. I think Sonny blasts Joe out of there within four rounds. Liston at his best handles Joe easily, in my opinion. He packs too much power in both hands backing up that long crunching jab. Back in 1960 nobody would dare to challenge Liston to a war, but Frazier would have little choice. He would have to step into the Liston threshing machine.

 

We seen how Liston dealt with pressure fighters and the strategy he employed, and I think it’s obvious what strategy Liston would use against Frazier as Liston wasn’t stupid, he’d either not give ground or only give a little bit to make Frazier walk onto to him, but not too much so he can still gain leverage on his punches.

He wouldn’t just throw blind punches sloppily, he’d use the jab to get Frazier weaving and would set up long range power punches by measuring with the jab or using in to set up uppercuts.
Frazier would not be able to bypass the devastating long-mid range combinations of Liston.

 

Such as?

 

I always have favored Tyson over Liston. For one,Liston was used to being the bigger man, but Tyson was approximately 220 pounds in his prime. Liston did blast out Patterson, but Tyson was a nuclear version of Patterson. He was just as fast, but hit harder (Tysons power was closer to Listons than Pattersons), had a much better chin and was like 25-30 pounds of lean muscle heavier than Patterson.

As for Frazier, Liston wasn't the destroyer a prime Foreman was. He was more measured, which could give Frazier more of an opening. But I do think his power takes its toll on Frazier in 4-6 rounds.

 

Or maybe Liston steps into the Frazier threshing machine?

 

True, Liston never faced anyone as good as Liston, Mike Tyson has good chin, power of Cleveland Williams in all hands, footwork as good as Ali's and speed of Patterson, even if Liston win in later rounds his face would look like he was hit by convoy of trucks.

As for Frazier, Liston is not as strong and big as Foreman, plus Foreman has that shovel tactic like Jack Johnson, that is way Liston even if he beat Frazier he would not do even close as easy as Foreman.

Foreman was bigger man than Liston, he could carry more weight, was taller, harder puncher, stronger man, had better uppercut, better chin than Liston and cut ring better.

Liston would not enjoy half of advantages Foreman had, let alone beat Frazier as fast or faster than Foreman.

 

Good post. Honestly, I'm with you, I don’t think it’s clean cut at all for Liston against either guy.

Against Frazier, Liston’s jab and strength would cause real problems early. Frazier was a slow starter and he walked into shots and Liston’s jab wasn’t just quick for a big man, it was heavy enough to really disrupt guys trying to close distance. Frazier would have to eat a lot of punishment getting inside. That being said, once Frazier starts getting to the body and forcing pace, Liston would have to fight at a tempo he wasn’t comfortable with. He never dealt with the kind of sustained, intelligent pressure Frazier could bring.

I still think Liston has a slight edge, because he had the tools to damage Frazier early before Joe could get into a rhythm. It’s not a blowout either way, I’d call it 55/45 in Liston’s favour, but he'd have to get it done early or bank enough rounds before Frazier’s engine really kicks in.

Against Tyson though, I don’t like Liston's chances nearly as much. Tyson’s faster, more explosive and defensively tighter coming forward than Frazier ever was. Sonny’s jab would be dangerous, but Tyson’s head movement, foot speed and combination punching early would give him a much better chance of slipping inside and landing cleanly before Sonny could establish full control. Once Tyson is punching inside Liston’s reach, it’s a bad matchup for Sonny. I’d still back Tyson heavily there, 70/30 in Tyson’s favour, probably by early to mid-round stoppage.

In both fights, Liston’s jab, reach and brute strength give him real chances, he’s no easy out, but against non-stop pressure guys with speed and explosiveness, he’s in serious danger if he can't control the early rounds cleanly.