Liston vs Frazier

Nearly mate, but just not quite there, not enough for that comment anyways, your on the right track though just a little premature lol

 

But come on, fair go, It's Liston!!!!!!!

 

All fair points.

It's an intriguing match up. Joe's tendency to swell and Sonny's telephone pole jab make me reluctant to pick Frazier even if he does negotiate the first few rounds. But if it becomes a dog fight I'd be reluctant to pick against Joe.

Enjoying the debate and differing perspectives.

 

Ellis was carried back to the corner? Really? Please explain.

https://ytcropper.com/cropped/cy5ddcd3af4aa83

 

Ok, on reflection, he got up at ten and a half seconds and sleep walked into the ropes. Perez had to guide him. Ellis hardly got to the corner by himself.

Should have been waved off when he hit the deck. It would have in MMA.

 

You are digging yourself deeper mate.

 

The census shows Charles Sonny Liston was 33-34 in 1964.

He wasn’t. There is no trace of him really being that age. All his family was recorded in the 1940 census and the 1930 census.

Sonny most likely died at 40 years old in 1970.

The rest of your post was about Sonny not being coldcucked by a single punch but rather a combination and the legitimacy of his famous losses in title bouts.

I can address this if you want.

Sonny was almost certainly knocked down legitimately by Ali. It was a knockdown, the punch landed and he was instantaneously dropped. The bad officiating, Ali’s behaviour and Sonnys right to hear a count contributed to Sonny staying down. He was not hurt but he was decked.

And yes, in a gruelling fight Sonny was taken out with one punch when he was near exhaustion against Martin. Good shot. He took it flush. And he was about 37-38 at that time.

 

You don’t think it should have been waved off?

That punch effectively ended the fight didn’t it?

 

I think Liston dived in the second Ali fight and his sparring partner and close buddy Foneda Cox states the same.

 

The difference is one of Liston's punches is worth 3 of Ali's.Liston can win this at range with his jab, or he can win it on the inside with his superior two handed power and strength.Nobody out muscled Sonny.

 

Rubbish.Frazier was near tears in his dressing room asking for something to ease the pain over his eyes.
Recorded fact! You're as up to speed on this as you are on the lounge topic,ie nowhere!
Correction, Frazier was in the hospital nearly 3 weeks.You don't spend 3 weeks in a hospital for high blood pressure.
"Can you get me a pill to stop the hurting Doc?"
Frazier to Dr Harry Kleiman in the dressing room.

 

Frazier knocked out, as in rendered unconscious two men of any note. Doug Jones an ex lightheavyweight and Bob Foster a light heavyweight.FACT!

ps Ramos quit.

 

Whether you think that or not I am stating the most obvious conclusion from film evidence.

Sonny was not hurt but it is a legit knockdown. The punch put him down.

The keystone cops debacle that followed kept Sonny on the floor. No count. It was chaos. The Nat Fleischer factor, Ali’s behaviour, Walcotts incompetence combined were an adequate explanation that can be seen on film. Sonny was buying time until the ring could be cleared and he could receive a count that he was entitled to.

Anything else requires imagination and a lot of unsubstantiated conspiracy when the film itself offers a credible explanation on its own. The result was simply ruined with incompetence.

 

You swallow what suits you.

 

Your a nob Mcvey, you don't get hospitalized for swollen eyes, he swelled up all the time, high blood pressure is a killer you old scenile fart, THATS WHAT HE WAS PUT IN HOSPITAL WITH. The fight shouldn't have actually gone ahead