Liston Vs Holmes, who has the best jab

I pick Liston too. Maybe Holmes jab was technically better and more versatile, but there were also other good jabbers like Pinkton Thomas or Michael Spinks... Listons jab was more unique.

 

Holmes. Faster..more versitile..more acurate..he could whip it or shove it down your throat. Best jab is all time IMO

 

This has been done multiple times. Both were great, for my money Holmes had the better, more versatile, dominant jab by a small margin. I think Liston had the stronger more punishing jab and was largely able to establish pace and space at his comfort. I wouldn’t argue strongly either way if someone disagreed. But I would give it to Holmes as the primary tool in his arsenal that he built around.

 

You're comparing Apples and oranges. This is like asking if Frazier's hook was better than Morrison's.

Holmes used his jab to both harass opponents with a constant glove in their face and to stop them in their tracks as he used lateral movement to get away or interrupt what the opponent was doing. A better comparison would be Ali as they used their jabs for similar purposes. Both flicked it out from waist height to add more speed and leverage and to make it harder to time. Holmes jab stung a little more (according to Shavers) and Would rarely throw more than 1 or 2. Ali Would constantly throw his out, doubling or tripling it and used his for range finding and to set up fancy flurries and combinations.

Liston's jab was like a police battering ram. The best display may have actually been his last fight against Wepner where he expertly kept the taller guy at range and blasted his face to bits (I believe Wepner needed more than 50 stitches). Liston knew not only how to throw bludgeoning jabs, but WHEN to throw them so that he wouldn't get timed or countered. Sometimes he would turn slightly sideways to add even more length to his crazy long arms which had the added benefit of minimizing risk from return fire. Liston could also square up and use his jab to smash through guards and set up his powerful bombs. A better comparison would be Foreman who no doubt picked up on many of Liston's habits and threw his jab similarly as a power punch.

Who had more success with the jab is a much more straightforward debate to have than who had a better one since their jabs are totally different and served different purposes.

 

Which fights were Liston's best "jabbing" performances?

 

Here's an interview from a common opponent they shared that I think would likely be illuminating.

Billy Joiner: Well, I won the National Golden Gloves in 1962. I started my pro career in 1963. For the first match with Liston I wasn't at home training like I was supposed to. I was training, but I went to New York to train. The accommodations, my meals, and everything weren't right. So that had some bearing on the fight. I had sparred with Liston before I fought him, though. I knew what I had to do in order to survive (We both smile and laugh loudly). Liston was a good fighter. He was a great fighter, and a very strong fighter. I came in at about 195 pounds. Liston was something that it was survival for me back then, and the chance to make a little money. In the second fight, I was home training. I was more relaxed. My Dad was there, and that made a big difference.

Question: You fought Larry Holmes in 1975 when he was starting to come up the ranks (Billy was 37 at the time of that fight). Who had the better jab: Liston or Holmes?

Billy Joiner: Oh, no doubt. Liston. If I had two weeks to train for Holmes, I would've beaten him. I hadn't been in the gym in a year. I got a call right before Christmas, and was asked if I wanted to go to Puerto Rico. I had four kids, and I didn't know anything about Holmes. So I went. I jumped on him right from the beginning. I wasn't in condition. But no, there really wasn't a comparison between him at that time and Liston at the time I fought him. Liston was much stronger than Holmes. I could walk right through Holmes, but I got tired. Had I been in condition, it wouldn't have been a contest for that particular fight.

Question: Holmes kind of threw a rising up jab (I motion from the waist upward), whereas Liston threw a straight, telephone pole-like jab.

Billy Joiner: Right.

Question: How did you defend differently against the different types of jabs?

Billy Joiner: Holmes hadn't really seasoned yet at that time in his career. So, I would just walk right through him. Liston was different. His jab was like getting hit with another man’s right hand. My head was red.

Question: Liston had an 84" reach. Was the reach that big of a factor with him?

Billy Joiner: It's a difference if you know what you're doing. He knew what he was doing, so I couldn't really get close to him like I wanted to.

Question: Of all of the guys you fought in your career: Zora Folley, Holmes, Blue Lewis, Liston, etc.--- who was the best guy you faced?

Billy Joiner: It was Liston. Liston was the toughest guy.

 

This is way too tough a question. Holmes had an even more vicious twist to his jab, and was probably quicker...but nobody stepped all the way into a jab like Liston. It was a monstrous punch from LL, while Holmes' was more strategic and (though this sounds pretentious) artistic.

I give it to Holmes because it was often the deciding factor in his fights, where with Liston it was more a taste of the awful bludgeons to come.

This was a ridiculously difficult call for me, and thus an excellent topic.

 

Always like seeing what common opponents think. Even if one was green at the time.

 

I think Liston was the better overall fighter and jabber. Barely.

 

Holmes had a better jab than Liston.

 

I've always thought Holmes had the best overall jab and Liston had the hardest jab. But to try and decide which of those was the best?

 

I like Holmes' snappy jab over Liston's power jab. Either could be effective but I think that if these two went H2H Holmes would land more jabs and take Liston's jab away from him.

 

It probably comes down to which you prefer, the teeth rattling ,brain dazing, telephone pole of Liston, or the snake like, sharp cutting range finder of Holmes.I think Sonny's jab had one disadvantage it was so heavy is sometimes jerked it's target backwards, away from the follow up punches.

 

Holmes made the most of his Jab. Would love to have seen em both clash prime.