Liston vs Marciano?

Point is if Johannson could do it , maybe Williams could too?

 

Yeah, his opponents for his major defenses were all logical selections, he wasn't ducking anybody as Champion.

Jackson was #1
Harris was #3, (#1 & #2 just had an inconclusive draw)
Ingo was #1
Liston was #1

Rademacher was a publicity stunt, held right after the Jackson fight.

And London & McNeeley were simply busy tune ups just before his major defenses against #1 contenders. Its unreasonable to assume he would fight another top contender in a tune up for his #1. Not everyone can be Joe Louis. And London I might add wasn't a bad busy opponent at all.

 

I already awknowledged Big Cat's chances.

 

Ingo is underrated. His power was a shade better than Williams and his movement, skill and footwork was really nice, and oddly never commented upon.

 

You're joking correct ? He was pathetically protected as a champion ... no Williams, no Foley, no Machen ... he got lucky when Ingo won against Machen ( he'd have lost the other 9 out of ten times) ... Floyd actually fought better fighters as a former champion.

 

Underrated ? Hardly ... he was a slow, poorly conditioned, weak chinned one armed fighter. To call his power greater than Williams is a monster assumption and likely incorrect.

 

Ingo's proven in the ring to be more powerful. Williams has one big time KO, that against Terrell.

Ingo KO'd Machen (who took Williams the distance) and Patterson. He also KO'd the respectable Erskine and Cooper.

Ingo was surprisingly light on his feet, especially as his career developed. Everything revolved around channeling the opponent into his right but he often followed up with a very hard hook.

 

Scroll back to post #165.

 

Absolutely correct!:good Patterson was wrapped in cotton wool until he matured mentally and physically,and overuled his mentor/Svengali D,Amato and insisted on meeting Liston.he lost but at least he faced the best man in the division Cus had him defending against a line of underwhelming challengers all the while avoiding

Machen
Folley
Carter
Satterfield
Bethea
Valdes
Dejohn
Miteff
Hunter
Cleroux
McMurtry
Williams
Baker
Thirteen men rated during his reign .
NONE OF WHOM HE DEFENDED AGAINST

 

Most young promising fighters are.

Absurd, some of those guys like Satterfield and Baker weren't even ranked during his reign.

Patterson was not a busy Champion, he made one major defense a year against his highest ranked challenger, and the occassional tune up that was always going to be against a fringe guy. He was no Louis or Ali in that regard, but that is the schedule he kept and that has to be understood to properly judge him. If Patterson had fought those guys instead of his actual #1 contenders, than he would have been a real ducker. Cus' fued with the IBC is well known but it didn't seem to stop Patterson from meeting his leading contenders.

Again:

57- #1 Jackson
58- #3 Harris because Machen/Folley fought to a boring draw in their eliminator that had fans disgusted with them. [url]http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1129&dat=19580410&id=28VaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=32sDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7527,1363523[/url]
59- #1 Ingo
60-challenging Ingo
61 #1 Ingo
62 #1 Liston

 

We can agree on this. :good

The wars with Patterson seemed to take the life out of him though. But he was certainly the real deal before that.

 

I wasn't logged in and saw this..

I've already told you that I had you on ignore since I came back, your rude, illogical, likely insane, and we couldn't agree on the color of the sky. Let it go, move on. :hi:

 

Absurd?


19561957[url]Floyd Patterson[/url], Champion

1. [url]Tommy (Hurricane) Jackson[/url]
2. [url]Archie Moore[/url]
3. [url]Harold Carter[/url]
4. [url]Willie Pastrano[/url]
5. [url]Eddie Machen[/url]
6. [url]Bob Satterfield[/url]
7. [url]Ingemar Johansson[/url]
8. [url]Bob Baker[/url]
9. [url]Zora Folley[/url]
10. [url]Wayne Bethea[/url]

NB. Patterson defended against just two of those.

 

Patterson won the title in 11/30/56, his reign starts in 57.

He made his first defense 07/29/57 against #1 Tommy Jackson.

Satterfield falls from the rankings in 57 and retires.

Baker also falls from the rankings in 57. In fact from 56 till his retirement, he would lose 11 of his final 18 fights.

So we are to believe Patterson ducked these fading former contenders to make his first defense against his #1 contender? That's just plain weak.

And yeah, I think if we are ranking Patterson as a Champion his lack of activity should be counted against him in regards to busier Champions. But if he always made sure to meet his leading contender each year, its hard to accuse him of ducking guys further down the totem pole. Harris was the only exception, but Machen/Folley blew their shot with a stinker of an eliminator match that failed to establish either man as the next in line.

 

Ok, I'm curious.

Rather than accuse Patterson of ducking this phantom, does anybody know what happened to Harold Carter?

He looked to be on a roll but after beating Baker in 1/57, he seemed to vanish for over a year. Likely dropped from the rankings for inactivity only to emerge in mid 58 and go on to lose 8 of his next 12 and retire. Looks like he got injured or something in 57 and never returned to form.