Liston vs Marciano?

Welll, this is all I could find..

[url]http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=_7VIAAAAIBAJ&sjid=2QENAAAAIBAJ&pg=2135,3734938&dq=harold+carter+1957&hl=en[/url]

Apparently Carter disappeared into the army in 57 and spent 18 months studying philosphy and mysticism...weird. Here he is already described as a former leading HW contender having dropped to the bottom of the rankings with inactivity. He would beat Besamnoff in his come back but lose to Valdez and go on a free fall.

Maybe we should research these guys more carefully before accusing Patterson of ducking them because they appeared in the year end Ring Rankings? Maybe if Carter didn't leave the sport to pursue other interests, he would have got his shot?

Patterson's first title defense was scheduled for July of 57 because it would draw well in a ballpark. Jackson was #1 at the time, that's just the way it was.

[url]http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2506&dat=19570514&id=6IJJAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ugsNAAAAIBAJ&pg=3032,2611303[/url]

 

Hairs, splitting ?. Patterson's reign began when he beat Moore. They fought in Jan 1960 ,at the beginning of 61 they were rated 2 &3 I think they were established.

I can see me being labelled as rude, illogical, insane.

 

Floyd Patterson knocked out Harold Carter in 74 seconds in amateurs, it was a highlight reel KO

 

I'm not hair splitting, I'm being realistic. Again....

Patterson's first title defense was scheduled for July of 57 because it would draw well in a ballpark. Jackson was #1 at the time, that's just the way it was.

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Baker and Satterfield were not #1, so they were not scheduled for the big ballpark defense. Patterson was not fighting before July, and that's the way it was. Imagine if he decided to duck Jackson and announce the slumping Baker or Satterfield as his Summer defense. Exactly.

Machen/Folley was in 4/58, it was an eliminator but they ended up eliminating themselves with a horrid showing so #3 Harris got the match.

But Liston was ranked #1 in 61 and the logical opponent after the Ingo Trilogy concluded, and he got his much deserved fight the following year after his suspension was lifted. Patterson made it happen against the wishes of others.

Patterson. Despite protests by the NAACP, which wanted Patterson to avoid fighting Liston, whose reputation as a thug was deemed detrimental to the civil rights movement, the fight took place on Sept. 25, 1962 in Chicago. It lasted only two minutes, six seconds.

Of course he did the Canadian gig with McNeely inbetween but that was an understandable tune up after the brutal third Ingo fight while he waited on Liston's suspension. Patterson planned on bowing out as Champion after Liston, but that didn't work out.


No, we are just disagreeing. Don't compare yourself to hegrant.

 

Complete and utter sence.:good

 

Exactly, people forget the Champion isn't free to fight whenever he wants. Especially at a time when it was the biggest draw out there. From Summer of 51-64 every single HW title fight was at a stadium in May, June/July/August, or September. I imagine this had to do with the promoters at the time milking the big fights in nice weather and the baseball schedule.

The only exception is Patterson/Moore in November in Chicago. I imagine this was because there was an urgent need to crown a new Champion, not sure why it bucks the otherwise consistent trend.

The next fight to break the trend was Ali/Liston in Florida in February. As Champion, Ali would become more of a touring attraction. Fighting in Europe, Texas, Vegas, and of course the Gardens becoming a hotspot for title fights. Anyway, the sport presentation had changed alot by then with tv's growing popularity..etc, there was other ways to make money than baseball stadiums.

 

David Tua was kod in the amateurs too.
An obscure boxer called Max Marek had Joe Louis up and down like a lift . Your point is?

 

Oh I like H.E Grant , we fall out from time to time , but he strikes me as logical and sane.

I'm getting stereo echoes now ,you make a post and Choklab endorses it, he makes one and you praise it.I'm getting dizzy

 

It doesn't matter if he was fighting like Ali prior to 57, the guy ran off in the army and became a mystic during the only timeframe he could have possibly negoiated a title shot in his entire career. His comeback after 18 months MIA was a failure. He's a nobody.

But what a promising start though, handling Satterfield twice and apparently defeating Baker with ease. Shame, he didn't stick with boxing.

 

So you put me back on why ? If you wanted to move on you'd stop the personal insults you always resort to when your poor arguments are diced to pieces by me. Not my fault your knowledge is limited and your an irrational last word freak to boot ...

 

Proven because you say so ? What a bizarre statement. Light on his feet .... guess the same logic ..

 

Now hold everything right here! You actually think ingo johansson is not as proven a puncher as big cat williams??

Ingo v machen ....KO 1

Williams v machen ....Draw


:think

 

Ingo wasn't that bad a mover.

Anyone saying he was flat footed needs horribly sodomising.

 

I don't at all ... no doubt Ingo had proven power but he barely fought anyone in his whole career ... the Machen KO is brutal, no doubt. Also a terrible ref job letting him hit Eddie far , far too many times when hurt ... Patterson, as game as any fighter but not exactly a solid chin , and if I remember he kept getting up where as Liston crushed him and he did not beat the count ...

AS far as your analogy above ..

Alo KO Bonavena
Frazier could not deck him in 25 rounds
Ali bigger puncher than Frazier ?

How's this?

Tiger Ellis KO Tommy Farr
Joe Louis w 15 Tommy Farr

Tiger bigger hitter than Joe Louis ?

Please be serious ... we know this line of reasoning is faulted ..

I think Ingo was a strong , early round puncher , one handed by the way with no left, poorly conditioned, lacked the mentality of a championship fighter and caught an erratic, overly protective Patterson on the right night ... he was terrorfied of Liston and would never go near him and got spanked by a twenty year old Ali in sparring and was smart enough to retire early before he became an opponent with a name for hungry turks to feast upon ..

 

Ingo KO1 Machen

Sonny Liston W12 Machen

Do the above results make Ingo as proven a puncher as Liston?

Cleveland Williams was considered a much harder puncher than Ingo. I've never read anyone say otherwise and the films I see seem to support it. His misses are more intimidating than a lot of Ingo's hits.