Liston vs Marciano?

At this point it's pretty obvious you're simply bored and cannot be serious .. :smooch:smooch

 

Joe Bugner being interviewed:

In 1977 you dropped a split decision to heavyweight contender Ron Lyle who had defeated Jimmy Ellis and Oscar Bonavena. In 1976 Lyle dropped George Foreman several times before losing in five rounds of a great heavyweight battle. Tell me about your fight with Lyle.

Ron Lyle nearly killed me. I am not kidding, he nearly killed me. The fight was at twelve noon in Las Vegas (nearly all my fights were during midday in the USA to coincide with the television broadcast back in Europe.) To cut a long story short, Ron Lyle was an ex-jail bird and learned boxing in jail. When I met him he said, “You got no chance of beating me because I am going to kill you.” Here I was at 27 years in the hard world of boxing. The fight went the full twelve rounds. After the bout, I called my brother Bill and told him I could not breathe. I had blood coming out of me. He rang the doctor who called an ambulance and rushed me to the Las Vegas emergency Hospital and they discovered I was bleeding internally. They put me into an ice tank. It took me six months to recover from that fight. Ron Lyle was a punishing fighter and so fu**ing big. He was bigger than me. He kept telling me during the fight, “I am going kill you mother fu**er.” I sacked my manager after the fight after a ten year relationship. He wanted to go to a party after the fight rather than look after my welfare. I had paid him 25% of my purse.

 

I feel we're making progress here. :good

Slowly but surely.

 

I'd rate Ingemar Johansson as a bigger puncher, or as big a puncher, as anyone who was around at the time.
Not sure why some people don't give him his due credit.

 

Funny but its always the guy that they go the distance with that hit harder than the guy who knocked him out Shavers KO'd Bugner and Frazier dropped him.....another thing guys like Lyle, Liston and Carter had the jail intimidation going for them and the did have the scare thing going for them but other than fear it does nothing in that ring....boxing is more than a sport because meanness is a virtue as opposed to a guy who strictly looks at is as a sport but lack of fear eliminated that edge as in Ali, Holyfield,Quarry etc.

 

Hey, I have explored this thing to death! I tell you, it is wearing me down...

The thing is this. Nobody can argue Cleveland big cat Williams is an ATG heavyweight.

A fair 1960s contender for 3 years. Like Karl mildenburger. No greater.

 

Exactly. When ingo came along the best two heavyweights in the world were Floyd Patterson and Eddie machen. Neither had been knocked out before. Ingo wiped the floor with both of them. It was a big deal. Nobody can take that away from him. 1959 was his year.

 

Sure Bummy ... Guess Ali hit harder that Lyle , Cooney or Williams as well ... ask Foreman ..

 

I am the first advocate of strategy and pin-point punching, I am a fan of Jersey Joe Walcott for this reason. As far as Ali KOing Foreman, Ali let Foreman KO himself after he blew his wad, Foreman went down from Jimmy Young who hardly could crack an egg but that was also a case of taking George out to deep water. The younger version of Foreman was guided away from Quarry, Bonavena and a few others the 1st decent puncher was Lyle and it could have very well ended as a loss for George (but he showed will to win) Foreman learned under Archie to relax and roll more as he got older and also pace himself.

If you look at my post I did not say Lyle could not punch but that he was overrated as a puncher and Mac Foster could punch but they did not pass the Quarry test, Frazier did

Big Cat did not pass the Satterfield test nor the Liston test and did not KO B rated guys who were being KO'd by others

I remember a muscled fighter from the 80-90's Mike Williams great physique but it did not add up to great puncher.

Lou Saverese KO'd Shannon Briggs cold in the gym and Briggs was known as a solid guy and Saverese not known as a big puncher

most heavyweights can hit but there are punchers like Vlad, Vitali,Louis,Lewis,Dempsey,Marciano,Baer,Tyson,Shavers,etc. Frazier & Cooney had a excellent left hook but where basically one arm power punchers but there are guys that can punch and take you out and this is something that moves up with them as they more up in class, Louis,Marciano,DempseyLewis,Tyson,etc were still KOing guys as they moved up in class

 

Yes, punching out low level guys is one thing but being able to also do it at the next level is quite something. There is power then there is world class power. The power to land at will.

 

Yeah, you're right, Cleveland Williams proved to be nothing special at the top level. The #22 all-time rating is insane.
But still, you needn't have brought up Lamar Clark.

 

:good And everyone who's seen those fights knows that his punches were devastating.
I'm still waiting for someone to demonstrate or explain how Cleveland Williams was a bigger puncher.

 

atsch

What on earth would give you that idea?

Prime Patterson carried one punch KO power from LHW-HW. His Gazelle Punch actually left guys twitching on the canvas. He knocked out Ingo, Moore,and London. He hospitalized Tommy Jackson with internal bleeding from body punches. Byrd never demonstrated such power on any level.