Liston vs Marciano?

So you compare a past prime Liston with an in prime Marciano? Makes sense.

 

Marciano probably wins but who knows.

 

Moore KOed Bivins when he was still hanging to a top 5 HW ranking.

Davidson may not have been a world beater but he did KO Marshall twice and had not been stopped by one shot before, it was simply an incredible display of one shot power from a man 35 lbs lighter no less.

 

So now we've come to this?

What makes you say Liston was past prime? He had just destroyed Patterson in his two previous fights to win the title and was expected to beat Ali.

If I wanted to be unfair I would bring up the Martin fight. In this case we are comparing a 48 fight 32 year old Marciano to a 36 fight 34 year old Liston, with neither showing visible signs of detoriation from their break out peak fights, so I don't think I'm being unreasonable.

 

He was. Rocky was very hard to hit with the jab. This is well documented. Ask Muhammad Ali.

but there was a type of jab that successfully hit Rocky but it was not one that you can work off. It was a defensive "step off jab". This was the only type of jab that I have seen that kind of worked against his style.

There are many types of jabs.


...Mgrain will list them for you.:good

 

Mongoose,

Johnson was a live underdog against Liston up until 1958. Once Liston hit his prime, Johnson would be screwed.

 

good post, you know this era very well :good

 

Marshall was not a top fighter at any stage of his career, he got lucky against Liston but normal service was resumed in the two subsequent fights.

I'm not derogating Moore but to put his right hand in the company of Baer's , Louis's , Lewis's ,Sullivan's ,Schmeling's etc, is to embrace fantasy. That does not even factor in non champions such as Langford, Shavers, Sheppard,Satterfield, Gomez, Mauriello, Baksi,Smith , Hague,Firpo,Godfrey,Lyle ,Foster.

 

The Johnson/Liston match in question would have happened in 56. But Johnson had to drop out to clear his name after being accused of taking a dive against Julio Mederos in their rematch, I think it was determined he was actually food poisioned.

Johnson supposedly posed considerable problems for Liston in some sparring sessions circa 55, but you never know how much to read into such stories. Sounds credible at least.

 

Don't patronise me ,you haven't the qualifications.

 

It was a suspect orange. I have the Ring magazine of the month that the fight occurred.

 

all good posts and Moore's run to Marciano was indeed his best streak ever, he beat the #1 and #2 heavyweight contenders KO8 Bob Baker and UD Valdes X2 among many others, In Archie's last 50 fights his only loss was a DQ and a disputed decision to Harold Johnson who he KO'd in a rematch

 

Marshall got "lucky" against Satterfield too. Nobody said he was a top fighter, he was just a tough fringe guy who mixed it up with lots of names from the era and managed to pick up a couple wins against two all time great punchers. He can also boast he lasted the distance in rematches.

No it isn't, Moore is already regarded as an all time great puncher, he stopped more men than anyone in history, and his right hand is a huge part of it. I can be outlandish but this isn't one of those times.

 

I say Liston was past prime when he went down from Ali's right hand ,do you dispute it?

 

I would draw a line after the Ali fights where he seemed like a spent force, but he still beat Henry Clark, essentially took Martin down with him, and in his last fight carved up Wepner pretty good.