Liston vs Marciano

This is true, but nobody wants to hear that, they just want to read the tape measure and scales!

"Fighting small" made the opponent lower their guard to reach down at Rocky who was trained to hit over the top. Archie Moore had seen just about everything, he trusted his own defences and expected to be water tight against crude Rocky, but Archie marvelled at the angle of the rights Rocky used on him. They kept landing and he did not understand it. They came from an angle he could not defend against.

Liston was a monster but I am sure Rocky would hit him and give him a frustrating time dragging Sonny into an inside battle.

 

Thanks for posting this:good

Howard writes with the same arrogance he talked with. I sense he was talking himself up and somewhat guilding the Lilly here.

What's to say Rockys reluctance was more to do with not being comfortable conducting a non scripted interview on air with a champion who was reluctant to talk?

I do think it odd that that having seen one another neither champion greeted the other. Usually champions who have never met before have that familiarity between them. A knowing, fighters bond between them and will acknowledge each other even if just a nod or a wink.. It is odd, but then we only have Cosell to trust that this is the way it was.

 

Moore said Marciano didn't know enough about boxing to know what a feint was.
Marciano said he could not avoid Louis's jabs he just had to take them.
That was an old Louis,why would Liston not have greater success at landing his battering ram?

Liston had 8 inches of reach on Louis,and sixteen on Marciano! :think
Why would Marciano necessarily win an inside battle with Liston?

Who ever did?
Why wouldn't the stronger ,bigger, heavier man prevail at close quarters?

 

marciano wins via inside work as liston quits on his stool

 

See post above yours.

 

Yes, Louis was old but it was a defensive "step off" jab he was forced to employ against Rocky to find room. It wasn't the falling in, launching, lead jab Liston used effectively on upright taller foes.

Incidentally, Sonny missed a number of his jabs against mismatched Albert Westphal who was shorter than Rocky. Sonny may have found the happless Westphal with a good right but the jab wasn't so effective against a shorter, crouching victim who could surprisingly still reach him. Impressive win though it was.

Sonny was excelent inside but I wonder about the full leverage and defence he would need against a low mauler. Especially if he became frustrated.

Still a tough fight for both men.

 

Sonny being rated over a much longer period of time is relevant. What is also relevant is that he maintained that rating against a greater breadth of fighting styles. He beat Marty Marshall in his 9th fight and was on the radar from that moment until his death in 1970, 40 some fights later. We know more about how Liston reacts, what sort of fighter he does well against, what tendencies he has.

Meanwhile, in Marciano, we have a guy who we know does well against older, smaller guys, guys past their pulldate with slowed reflexes.

That said, Mike DeJohn made Rings top ten for 1958, a couple months before he fought Liston. Williams was rated the year after he fought Liston for the second time.

In the end, I don't really think Liston blows out Marciano but I do think he breaks him down and stops him in the latter rounds. A prime Liston is not going to fade a la Walcott or Moore and is going to ship a lot more damage Marciano's direction.

 

I wouldn't put too much on this observation considering it was less than 2 minutes of fighting vs a reluctant guy(hence why Liston didn't land many jabs) running for his life and whom Sonny probably took pretty lightly. I'm not sure how this says anything about a Liston-Marciano bout. Marciano would have come directly down the barrel towards the awaiting cannonball. Westphal was doing everything in his power to steer clear of it.

Plus who is to say that Sonny wouldn't have started landing more jabs if the Albert had managed to last more than 1 min. 58 seconds? I'm sure Liston would have no trouble finding Marciano's big blocky head with his jab.

 

It seems Liston gets penalised for pulverising the German.:huh

This content is protected

 

Liston's win over DeJohn was sandwiched in between 4 fights that DeJohn only won 1 of 4, He had a win over Bob Baker but was beaten by Nino Valdes x2 and split 2 with Willie Besmanoff, in his 17 fight DeJohn was KO'd by 3 win fighter named Johnny Cousins and was Ko'd about 2 years after the Liston loss by Machen and Foley. So not so sure how strong of a win DeJohn was

 

Maybe, maybe not. Louis found Rocky with a defensive, step off jab as he was getting away, yet Ali said Rocky was difficult to nail with a jab. The awkward side on stance was difficult to penetrate from outside. Wasn't Punching down (and lowering the guard to do so) something Marciano was keen for opponents to do? The way Liston committed to the jab means he is not getting away after delivering the jab because his whole body came in behind that jab. Marciano would be returning fire and landing, that is for sure. So long as he's landing Rocky is in with a good chance IMO. Sure Liston has the tools too but I cannot discount such an awkward iron man with knockout power.

 

Valdes was the number 2 rated heavyweight. Liston fought DeJohn in his 24th fight it was in Feb1959 at the end of 1958 DeJohn was no 10 in the world.
Marciano's 24th fight was against Phil Muscato,when was he ever rated ? How strong a win was that one?

 

Liston certainly has the tools and pace to break down Marciano later in the fight- providing we have the faith in him not folding up from a guy who Keene Simmons says punches harder Williams and clearly hit harder than Ali, Martin and Marshal.
I think there needs to be no room for era for Sonny to win this match up. We know Rocky can tough things out and drag better technicians into maul fests. We also know Rocky can climb off the floor and still win ugly at top level.

 

Valdes had been a good contender before Liston fought him but had become erratic after Satterfeild pounded him over ten rounds in 55'. Around the time Sonny got to him Nino was out of the top ten. Valdes was pretty spent when Sonny fought him. Fresh off two bad losses with unranked youngsters Alonzo Johnson and footballer Charlie Powell (who decked him) either side of a win against hall of fame wrestler Dan Hodge.

 

I'm referring to the Valdes that beat DeJohn in1958,he was the number 2 rated heavy then.:good

Valdes was rated number 2 at the end of 1958, he fought Liston 8 months later.