Liston Vs. Small Greats - Would You Favor...

He would have been too much for them all except Gene Tunney who would have been competitive.

 

I thinK Tunney would take a dec from Liston,Sonny had slow feet and didnt cut off the ring Tunney had fast feet and used every inch of the canvas.Liston stops Moore late and Conn as well.

 

Agreed.

 

I think tunney would have been one of listons easiest victims. Tunney's poor habits of keeping his hands low, poor infighting, and lack of competition vs big heavyweight with a jab will spell doom for gene. while a non aggresive Slick Defensive tachnician like Archie Moore who had top notch power and plenty of ring savvy would have been trouble for Liston. Liston would eventually club him down. The toughest fight with liston would have been jersey joe walcott, it would have been a real close one but I see Liston catching walcott at some point(perhaps trailing on the cards). Charles and Harold Johnson do better than tunney because they were more polished and fundamentaly sound boxers than tunney, plus charles had faster handspeed and was a better infighter than tunney.....but ultimatley listons combination of size skill power jab would overwhelm charles and johnson. Conn would do well vs liston but like charles and johnson, he would get overwhelmed by listons long jab and clubbing blows. Interesting story: in mid 1950s Harold Johnson used to beat the **** out of liston in philly sparring gym. Harold johnson vs young sonny was scheduled in 1956 but johnson pulled out due to an injury and the fight never took place on a later date. too bad.

 

Tunney has the best chance, but I think Liston would eventually catch up to him: late on. His skills, jab and ability on inside and out match Tunneys and he has an edge in strength 9he's a better inside fighter IMO). Tunney would look good for quite a while, but Liston is a different beast to Dempsey IMO and can hold his own boxing him, I think Liston would eventually land more big hooks as the fight wore on. Once Liston had his opponent hurt, he was a deadly finisher. If Tunney dwells near the ropes too long once he tires; Liston was excellent at pouncing straight in, cornering fighters and unleashing with big shots.

From the others Walcott would be a tough enough assignment, his immense ability to create angles, skill, awkward style and underrated power would keep him in with a shout. Rather like the Louis fight Walcott might be ahead on points (maybe not by much, though) before getting caught and finished in the latter stages. I don't think he could quite keep Liston off forever. I think Liston would beat Moore and Conn a bit more handily.

 

Funny, he seems to miss two somewhat insignificant attributes of a superheavy.......... namely weight and height.

 

I would favour him over any of them but if he fought all of them I would expect one to get past him.

 

In the post starting this thread Walcott's name wasn't mentioned. Moreover, at around 200 pounds in the forties and fifties he cannot be really called a small heavyweight.

If he fought Liston he too would be competitive like Tunney, IMHO.

 

I dont think size of the body would make much of a difference for Sonny, the guys besides Ali that beat him were not really Big men, Marty Marshall was 179=180lbs and Leotis Martin was a half inch over 6" just like Sonny, I think the guy that beats Sonny takes his early offence and comes back, Sonny was the ultimate Bully before Tyson and he did not like it when a fighter came back after feeling his power, he quit in the 1st Ali fight with a shoulder injury, took a dive in the 2nd, what is he being so overated on his dominance of Patterson, his wins over Cleveland "Big Cat"Williams ( who was already blown out by 176lb) Bob Satterfeild Liston was impressive and looked like a killer ( I remember when he was Champ ( the jail time did not hurt) but lets face it Sinny was a Bully who quit when the going got tough, he may get lucky and Ko an ATG early but I doubt he could do it vs Marciano ( too much heart 4 him) Louis ( too much pain for him) even Dempsey, Walcott,Lewis, Holmes ? Charles and others may be able to take what Sonny had and answer back

 

Bummy, Sonny was a novice against Marshall and fought much with a broken jaw. He was in his 7th pro fight. By contrast Schmeling whupped Joe louis in what was fight 28 for Louis. Maybe Max showed Joe Louis wasn't much chop either? Liston came back to knock Marshall down 4 times (still green) on his way to a TKO and beat him 9 rounds to 1 in a rubber.

As far as Leotis Martin, it was Listons second last fight, he was a minimum of 37yo and miles away from his prime. By contrast Louis was only about 36 vs Ezzard Charles and still champion. Maybe Charles showed Louis wasn't hard to beat in this one?

Obviously Charles and Schmeling have little impact on Louis' true greatness, just as the likes of Marshall and Martin have zero impact on Liston's.

When scrutinising such greats we need to look at them at their best and give them a fair go.

 

A couple of other important attributes regarding the super duds..... slow... easy to hit.

 

When Clay did that against Liston, it didn't matter one bit.

 

Conn and Tunney might be able to beat Liston.
Both were ridiculously tough, durable, and clever. I'd expect Liston to beat Conn, but I'd give Tunney at least an even chance.

Moore, even at heavyweight, as clever as he was, liked to use his great physical strength and power in closing his man down eventually. He was a warrior ultimately. I think get into some sort of war and he'd get knocked out.

 

Yea but he quit with Ali in the 1st fight and took a dive in the 2nd fight, based on these 2 loses I have trouble rating him so high, Let me ask you Who else did Ali make quit. I agree he came back from the Marshall loss but was dropped by Marshall in the rematch, point is Marshall weighed in at 179. The Martin fight was not the best Liston by far but Leotis was not a killer either. I still rate Sonny high but themental breakdown vs Ali troubles me as much as Tysons in his career. Duran rebounded from his vs Leonard by fighting Hagler and Barkley on even terms but Sonny never really came back.