Liston vs. Smokin Joe ???

If Sonny QUIT WHILE SITTING ON HIS STOOL AGAINST THE LIGHT-HITTING ALI IN 1964 IN MIAMI,...he's going to destroy a prime Frazier?.....Nope...take Joe in this one....

 

Tip.................iceberg

 

Liston. He was very good on the inside and imo had a better left hook even than Frazier. Frazier being a slow starter I can see Liston doing a foreman

 

Well, I think Liston´s jab wouldn´t be that easy to slip for Joe. Firstly, Joe´s bob and weave could be timed and secondly the Patterson fight´s suggest Liston wouldn´t jab the head of Joe but the left shoulder which would be easier to hit and would slow down Joe later in the fight.
The thing is we know Liston could get frustrated and made quit. Ali did though and while Frazier isn´t Ali stylewise, I think Frazer´s non-stop attack regardless what Liston does could have a similar effect on Liston - if Joe survives his slow first rounds.

Basically, I don´t think this will end by KO but it will go down to the score cards and the deciding factor will be Liston´s jab. If Liston really jabs Fraziers shoulder and is able to make Frazier slow down in the last few rounds I think Liston takes it - Liston takes the forst 3-4, the last 2-3 and some in the middle. But I think Joe should be the slight favourite.

 

Hard one to call, i don't see Liston repeating what Foreman did, but he still has a good chance of stopping Frazier within 6 rounds. If it goes past that, i see Frazier busting Liston up badly and stop him late.

Frazier's no Patterson.

 

Fraizer's own management didn't think he would beat Liston, while Liston was active in the 1960's.

While Liston did retire on his stool, Frazier did not exactly push Futch out of the way or argue much when he stopped the fight against the same Ali.

 

Frazier wanted to continue in Manila while Liston wanted a way out. That's been said by his son Marvis and also I heard Frazier didn't talk to Futch after he stopped it for Frazier.

 

Frazier was in much, much worse condition, though. No way would he quit like Liston did against Clay.

 

Pre FOTC Joe Frazier circa 1967 - 1970 would stop Liston inside 10 rounds. Liston wouldn't be able to handle Frazier's body shots, presure and head movement. Frazier didn't just bob and weave his way inside his opponent's reach. 1960's Frazier would dip his shoulders on either side slipping jabs and he would bob and weave to get closer, especially cutting off the ring to corner his opponents. Tyson took this style a step further early in his early career using the double slip, throwing hooks to both sides of the body and incorporating the peak-a-boo defense from Floyd Patterson.

After the FOTC, Joe bobbed and weaved more than he slipped punches, but against Foreman in the second fight, 1976 he slipped more punches rather than bobbing and weaving. With that being said, I think Liston probably beats the mid 1970's version of Frazier but not with the relative ease that Foreman did in 1973.

 

I agree.

It's likely that some folks pick Liston due to what Foreman did to Frazier, but this has never been a good comparison in my honest opinion. The size difference between Frazier and Liston is not quite as wide as it is between Foreman and Frazier. Additionally, there are some vast differences in styles here. Foreman often fought at mid range, using looping punches, hooks, upper-cuts, and hooker-cuts, which were a perfect fit for catching a swarmer who constantly lowered and raised his center of gravity.

Liston on the otherhand, relied heavily on his strait jab and crosses. Although he certainly had plenty of power to knock out Joe, he'd likely land less often than Foreman did, as jabbers and strait shooters were usually troubled by Fraizer. Also remember, that Frazier was declining when he fought Foreman, and George had to deck him multiple times, before a referee intervention took place. It wasn't like Frazier got hit with a single shot, and it was good night sweet prince. Furthermore, Foreman was nailing Joe with shots that were lifting him off the canvas, something that I don't think Sonny would be able to do. Lastly, as you've already mentioned, Frazier would have been one of the few fighters that actually took the fight to Sonny, and was ready to wage war with him, whereas most of his opponents were too intimidated by Liston to fight back. I don't see this happening with any man who had the balls to get in the ring with Foreman twice.

My pick is Frazier by late stoppage.....

 

Nice post! I agree with you that Frazier's prime was late 60's to early 70's. That's the Frazier that i think beats Liston. I don't think Frazier was quite the same fighter after that.

 

Yeah, after a 14 round battle, with two guys beating the **** out of each other, and his trainer stepping in and calling it. Would you say that this is the same as Liston quitting on his own free will and acord after only 6 rounds of boxing?

 

Liston: early TKO.

 

Frazier gets reeled in the first round but his head clears and wins on a late round stoppage or decision.