Liston Williams Round 2 Color

Miteff was knocked out by DeJohn back in 1957. Your suggestion that "his chin never really got over that" is obviously not true since by the time he fought Williams in 1961 he had gone the distance with the likes of Folley, Valdes, Cooper and Chuvalo and his only stoppage losses were due to a cut and an injured knee. It's also untrue that he was counted out against Cassius Clay - the fight is on Youtube if you're interested.

And why would I mention what Rischer was doing in 1959? The man was a capable fringe contender who beat Henry Cooper and went the distance with quality opponents like Eddie Machen and Zora Folley. The fact that Williams wasn't the only man to knock him out doesn't support your claim that he "got knocked out by everyone half decent he fought".

 

His best wins were Harris, Machen and Folley who were certainly top ten rated at that time. And that was enough to make Sonny an outstanding and logical contender to the championship. Excellent wins. Perfect. I don’t know why people try and make a case for others like Dejohn and Bethea because I don’t think they enhance Sonnys status at all. They were fringe guys. Usual fare.

Williams was not rated by Ring Magazine until after losing to Sonny. Williams best rating was around the time Sonny was already champion. That’s about the time Williams was a contender. He had not beat anyone any good before meeting Sonny the first time.

 

Miteff did indeed go the distance with a lot of top fighters. This is true. But it still does not make such a magical win for Williams. Chuvalo decked Miteff hard. And as you say, he was knocked cold by Dejohn in 1957. He was losing a lot of fights around the time he fought Williams. It was not unexpected. Nor is it inaccurate to suggest most good fighters beat him.

Rischer was a capable journeyman. Hot and cold. As you say He was knocked out by a lot of fighters including Williams and he also held his own with some good ones too. If somebody is famous for being knocked out by most of the best guys he fought I don’t think there can be much wrong in saying anyone half decent knocked him out. Maybe next time I shall say “most” rather than “anyone”. But It shouldn’t really matter. Brian London knocked him out in one round anyway.

 

They were'nt ," fringe guys," they were ranked contenders when Liston beat them.Williams was ranked when he fought Liston ,courtesy of his win over Richardson, who himself was ranked later,in1960.

 

Am I wrong in saying that anything that can be considered remotely good about Cleveland Big Cat Williams record happened AFTER Sonny Liston knocked him out?

 

No you shouldn't say anything. Rischer went the distance with
Lincoln.
Cooper
Johnson
Spencer
Clark
Machen
Folley
He wasn't "famous for being knocked out," by anyone! God Almighty, and you wonder why posters get exasperated with you!

 

You've been proven wrong, so just have some class and STFU!

 

Williams fought Richardson in 1958 right after Richardson had lost to Bob Baker and lightheavyweight Willie Pastrano. Wherever Richardson ranked in 1960 has no relevance to how he was considered after losing to Pastrano and Baker in 1958 which is when he lost by disqualification to Williams who ran out on a rematch clause with Richardson because of Williams had some sort of nervous breakdown.

 

Rischer was famously knocked out in one round by Brian London wasn’t he?

This is no reflection on Sonny Liston. He got to the title beating better fighters than Cleveland Williams was regarded in 1959.

 

So your original claim that Miteff, Holman and Rischer were knocked out by every half-decent opponent they fought has been whittled down to the claim that Rischer was knocked out by "most" of the half-decent opponents he fought.

Well, you might just about be able to juggle the figures to back that up, if you included his losses to Sonny Liston and Mac Foster at the tail-end of his career. It wouldn't change the fact that if he was such an easy man to stop then Eddie Machen, Henry Cooper and Thad Spencer - all top 10 contenders who fought Rischer within a couple of years of his loss to Williams - should have been able to do it too.

 

True, Rischer, aside from knockout defeats to London and Archie Moore, he did last the course with Machen and Thad Spencer types so yes, if you put it like that Rischer was not such an easy man to stop.

And it’s the same for the others. Fair opponents but no “feather in the cap” types.

 

He lasted a lot longer than that against Sonny Liston

 

Liston had him up and down like a yo-yo

 

He's right in pieces but goes to absurd extremes trying to denounce, like he does with all his "targets". Extremes his accepted heavyweights are not held to in any way shape or form. Liston pretty much cleaned out the division with Williams being just one part of it. It wasn't the strongest era ever but he did it in style culminating with the brutal ko's of Patterson.

 

Yes i know a dick when i see one and you sure make a prong of yourself with anything Liston, Williams, Foreman or Tyson!!!

At least one part of Sonny's legacy is safe then!!!! I almost types "ten" instead of "then"!!!