Liston without Ali

I don't think the 'public' would have fallen for a Liston vs. Williams III bout

and likewise a Liston vs. Patterson III bout.

The 'one' people wanted to see, Sonny vs. Ingemar Johannson, but,,,,,,,

That bout would have had made the most CASH $$$$$.

Only 'logical bouts',,,,,,,,,, and all would have been 'box office duds'
vs. Eddie Machen II
vs. Ernie Terrell
vs. George Chuvalo
vs. Doug Jones
vs. Henry Cooper
vs. Zora Folley II

 

Leading up to the title he was pretty badasss. Things were said to have changed from a desire stand-point after he won. I'm sure people on here have more details.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwUYR0n6eDA&hd=1[/ame]


Guys like Dempsey, Liston, Foreman and Tyson seemed to strive on that "edge," that fire to prove...but after they accomplish what they set out to do...it might not be as strong.

 

Liston without Ali?....it means Sonny doesn't quit on his stool in Miami in 1964...and ...he doesn't get..."ahem"...KO'd by the "Phantom Punch" up in Maine in 1965...

 

Liston is so underrated. People base his whole career on a loss to the GOAT in his prime. Liston was approx 35-45 at the time.

What was Tyson doing at that age? Holyfield? Louis? Ali himself was getting his ass handed to him by Trevor Berbick at that age.

Liston steam rolls Frazier IMO, prime for prime

 

If Liston was 35-45 against clay that makes him a full grown man of 25-35 when he turned pro at 198lb. For the training of the day it would be unusual for a heavyweight of 35 getting much heavier by the time he reaches 45. It is more likely Liston was in his late teans when he turned pro. Just like most heavyweights. There is a lot of smoke and mirors around Liston as the first modern super heavyweight.

I wish Liston did fight somebody as live as a prime frazier when liston was in his prime. It would have helped his legacy.

 

As with the Marciano vs Liston, green vs past prime, the time frame didnt have the match prime for prime, but more of a old shot Marciano vs Liston or a green Liston vs a near prime Marciano, the same would be the said of Liston Frazier.

No way would I thown in Fraizer vs Liston in the early 1960's, nor would I think past prime Liston would beat prime Fraizer in the late 1960's.

 

corect. It was not posible for a prime vs prime bout between Liston and Frazier. I do think if it was possible it would have provided the kind of 50-50 competition that Liston lacked from 1961-63.

Listons's contiued seasoning suffered because the Johansson fight never hapened, Floyd did not show up both times and king and westphal were not as good as machen and folly had been.

 

On Sonny Liston,,,,,,,

I have done enough research, to determine he was born in May 1927.

That made Sonny, 36 1/2 when he fought Cassius Clay in February 1964.

Sonny claimed he was born in May 1932, or so he said, and that he was listed on
the 'Tale of the Tape' for the February 1964 bout as an age of 31 1/2.

Not so, my Arkansas friends say-----------

By the time he fought Leotis Martin in December 1969, Sonny Liston was every bit of
42 1/2.

He was still in 'remarkable shape'.

 

I dont doubt Sonny was older than was reported.

more importantly I believe that Sonny lived hard outside of the ring and that ages a fighter more than anything. He liked to drink and chase women. Whether he did drugs on a regular basis or not I cant say but I do believe Liston`s lifestyle had as much to do with is downfall as any punch he ever took.

 

As Sonny would say,,,,,,,,,'The Real Breakfast of Champions'

I still believe Sonny was 'loaded' when he walked into the ring versus Cassius Clay in Lewiston, Maine in 1965.

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I agree.

It's shocking that somebody here "looked up" Doug Jones's record and concluded from that he'd beat Liston.

 

So that makes the first modern "super heavyweight" a full blown 198 pounder at the mature age of 26 in his debut year. Thats as big as leon spinks was at 24. I dont buy it.

 

Alot of Liston stories that are the stuff of legend.

Ive known some people in my life who were vey nice guys but once they started drinking they turned into total assholes. From what I know about Sonny Liston that seems to be the case.

There is a story about Sonny when he was out in Vegas. He was drunk in a bar and looking for a fight and he started fuking with an older Italian man.

Turned out to be Moe Dalitz the Godfather of Las Vegas.

As the story goes Dalitz got right up into Liston`s face and said "blank if you hit me you better kill me because I`ll have you dead in 24 hours. "

Dont know if its true but Sonny Liston went right up to his room and checked out.

 

Sonny turned Professional in September 1953

Weighed 200 lbs. at age 26 and 4 months

By August 1958, he was still only 204 lbs. - at age 31 and 3 months

What is so hard - not to believe.


1950 Photo. (That doesn't look like an 18 year-old to me)
.

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