Did you get my PM on Machen vs Williams on flim! Now that I have your attention, how about those Patriots! 0-3 in the last three playoffs games.
T-N-T, Young Jack Johnson. He was supposed to be Sonny Liston's opponent in Miami Beach. March 8, 1961. Howard King was a last-minute replacement. Cassius Clay fought Donnie Fleeman,,,,,,,, February 21, 1961 Sonny Liston fought Howard King,,,,,,,,,,,, March 8, 1961 Floyd Patterson fought Ingo,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,March 13, 1961 All bouts in Miami Beach, Florida
I have Williams vs Machen on film. Very interesting match! NOT! now that I have your attention, how about those Patriots? 0-3 in their last playoff games. As I told you that are past their prime. You can come out from hiding now, the super bowl is over. Back to boxing...I doubt Williams, Folley, or Machen would be in the top 3 today. They were good competition of the era, but two were small without power. the other was big with power, but could not take a punch.
MEN,,,, Good point. Cleveland Williams, a brutal puncher, when clobbering mediocre fighters. Suspect chin, and a stiff-legged fighter. Left hand heavy only. Best years, 1958 thru 1962. Was fading in 1963. May have given a young Cassius Clay a small nightmare in 1962 or 1963. Zora Folley, a good 1-2 puncher, with good power occassionally. Fragile chin, and many times too easy to figure out. Porous defense. Best years 1956 thru 1962. Eddie Machen, very good boxer, with decent power early in his career. Safety first approach after 1958 loss to INGO. Did have a good chin, despite the shocking loss. Lacked right hand power. Best years 1955 thru 1962. Brief surge at the end of 1963 and early 1964. From 1965 and on, nothing more than a defensive counter-punch specialist. Would have beaten Cassius Clay in 1962 and probably in 1963 if he didn't suffer an illness.
Liston was a great puncher, but the way he threw the 2nd championship fight against Ali is unforgivable. Liston is like Foreman, a great puncher, intimidating but relied most on power and less on strategy. In my top hw list is at number 10.
Oddity,,,,, Sonny was an officer in Inter-Continental Promotions (I-C-P), which had the promotional rights to both Liston vs. Clay I, Ali vs. Liston II, and Ali vs. Patterson I. Later, in 1968 he formed Inter-Continental Films (I-C-F), which was backed by a couple of Las Vegas and Hollywood 'insiders'. Sometimes losing money in a business and fabricating expenses,,,, is a very good tax write-off,,,,,,,,, Wink-Eye.
Yeah, I rate Machen's chin as excellent, despite that brutal ko loss to Ingo. Machen's performance vs Liston I've always respected...regardless of the expert's opinions of that time that derided Eddie for "running" during the bout. Hell, if he was just a little bigger, he may have upset Sonny..he had nothing to be ashamed about by fighting a fight that said "you ain't knocking me out"...I've always respected that kind of approach..like when Bonecrusher went the distance with prime Tyson. Machen had balls that night vs Liston, and I think that, though he would have been beaten..outpointed that is..he would'nt have been ko'ed by Ali, had that fight been arranged before Ali's exile.
Speaking of west-coast fighters, Sonny wanted badly to fight in California, but the state refused to grant him a license, until March 1968. According to the Oakland Tribune, Sonny was a hero to the 'cats' in Watts in 1966 and later. If any late 50's and early 60's fighter got a bad break, or royally screwed, it was 'Fast Eddie'.
Fredo, There is a great article, describing Sonny Liston's connections from 1961. Frankie Carbo Blinky Palermo George Katz Pep Barrone Sam Margolis Jack Nilon Barney Baker The deli in Philadelphia that he used to live above,,,,,,'Chuck Wagon Deli' And all of Geraldine Liston's 'mink coats' came from Chicago.
