Liston's Best Fight

I wasn't talking of you......

Clay obviously

Louis, Tyson, Holmes and Lewis stand decent chances too i think. Lewis i like a lot in this one.

 

I wasn't taking it personally! But I see that you see Liston as formidable in head to heads. Personally I don't see any version of Clay beating a 1959 Liston who bothered to train. 1967 is a completely different story. That latter is the only one I wouldn't hesitate to favor.

 

I give a prime version everyone above a chance against Liston, less so for Clay, Frazier, Marciano, Frazier and Holyfield. Moreso for the rest.

 

Fair enough, although I'd probably argue anyway. Particularly when it came to Tyson.

 

First Williams fight.

 

Im confused. corrie sanders was a journeyman 95% of his career, yet I hear you defending him in other threads saying he was not a journeyman. Bethea appeared in the Ring Magazine annuel ratings in his career more times than sanders did in fact. Bethea made it 3 times annuelly and many times monthly. He was certainly a well earned consistent contender, technically speaking.


Liston was getting old and soft and rusty by patterson fights, he was in rock solid shape hungry and young during the wayne bethea fight.

 

Right. And how often did Bethea beat a top opponent, let alone the #1 contender? The best he managed to do was beat a green Terrel who at that time was losing to guys like Johnny Gray. Go figure. Bethea was very tough and durable, but not nearly as dangerous as Sanders who was a big guy with fast hands, a hard punch and an unorthodox stance. Bethea has had over 10 opportunities to fight top opponents and lost every time except for a green Terrel who only reached the top10 four years later.

About him being a consistent contender (technically speaking), he sure was consistent. In that he kept losing when he stepped up.



As for Liston getting old and rusty during the Patterson fights, what is your evidence for that?

 

I'm interested in hearing the explanation to this claim as well. The Patterson fights are commonly listed as two of the most destructive wins over a prime a champion in heavyweight history. If Liston was rusty for these matches, then I must have missed it.

 

Liston began his decline since the first patterson fight. He was far more inactive(going into the rematch he had fought just 5 rounds in the past 3 years)...he began enjoying party life like dempsey, his age started to creep up on him(anywhere from 31-33 take your pick) and his body looked softer by 1963. He was able still to dispose of floyd so easily because he simply put was such a beast and floyd was so scared and intimidated from the first fight that it didnt matter if liston was 40, same thing would have happened to floyd.


Its clear ingo would not have stood a chance in hell vs liston. he would have had to gotten the luck of an angel.



listons absolute best was when he weighed in peak very trim 204lb vs wayne bethea. his speed and reflexes were sharper faster than i had ever seen. he was a lean mean machine that night, and he was younger.

 

I think you're taking the rusty and old thing a bit too far. He turned pro relatively late and had many prison breaks during his career and no grueling 10+ round wars; that, plus his style makes him a relatively young 31. Certainly, at the time, all reports of the Patterson fights list him as being as awesome as he ever was and not a single word about being rusty, old or enjoying the party life too much.

 

1. Williams I
2. Patterson I
3. Folley
4. Patterson II
5. Wepner (nice swansong)

 

no bethea? he hammered a top 10 contender in brutal 58 seconds, a man who never before or never after would be stopped.

 

relativley young 31? he arguebably was around 33-34 that time, he certainly looked older than 31. after liston won the title, he stopped training with intensity, he enjoyed sex drugs booze and party life. his body became soft. he had boxed just 5 rounds in 3 years, he was very rusty. he was aging. liston was not staying hungry like he used too fighting top contenders ever other month anymore to keep sharp.