Liston's cornerman on the KO loss to Ali

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bokaj, Apr 25, 2008.


  1. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    You can't blame people for thinking it was fixed. It's not as if this is the cleanest of sports anyway. It certainly looks like a dive.
     
  2. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    People miss out on the facts that Ali stood over Liston not letting him get up, Liston did get up once Ali was removed, and Walcott let the action resume and wrongly stopped the fight after it resumed.

    Its all Walcotts fault
     
  3. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I got a little bit carried away to be honest. I can see why people have problems with the second fight, but it just gets to me how many want to explain away both fights, and also don't like that people treat it is a given that there was a fix. There are really no hard evidence and there are alos some things that point to the opposite. It's not like this was the only controversial fight, there's also fights like Johnson-Willard, Leonard-Duran II, Tyson-Seldon, Bowe-Golota I and II, and Tyson-Golota, but no one claims that any one of those is a fix. With that said, the ending of Ali-Liston II is very bizarre.

    For me the likeliest explanation is that Liston went down because he was off balance and didn't see the punch, and a) saw it as a good opportunity to quit or b) never had a chance to get up since Ali was standing over him and screaming as a mad man.

    Since alternative b) was Listons' own explanation I see this as the most likely alternative. Yes, Listons' tumbling about looked theatrical, but Johnson shading his eyes while being counted out against Willard looked strange as well. When all is said and done, this theory is the most plausible.
     
  4. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Willard Johnson?? Have you even seen the LONG Version of that fight?? That was NO fix, and the punch was MORE real than the punch Ali landed on Liston. The knockout look like a major punch on the film, with Willard's weight behind it. Willard may not be a great boxer, but the man could hit. Also the fight played out as the way there should be no arugement, Johnson was winning the fight, the first 15 or so rounds, Johnson was handling Willard, Than Johnson tires, and Willard takes over, Johnson than makes a great stand in round 17, thowing eveything but the kitchen sink at Willard, batter him around the ring, and trying to take his block off. The effort tireds Johnson, and the fight swings back to Willard, lands a amazing body shots on Johnson in the 25 round, and even has Johnson hurt. The 26 round and Willard finishings a dead game Johnson. I see nothing controversial about that fight.
    Many boxers has there eyes cover apound a knockdown, Louis Conn comes to mind. Was Billy Conn thowning the fight?? It was strange, I mean that bright light must be in Conn's eyes.
    The other part of it is pay attention to Johnson's knees, as they slip down as Johnson slips into his nap. If Johnson took the dive, I dont think his knees would slide down, also when his handlers tend to him(On the film,) His body is limp.
     
  5. punchy

    punchy Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Walcot's actions were very controversial.
     
  6. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Dempsey, you should probably read my post again. I use the Johnson-Willard as an example of how it doesn't have to be a fix just because the fighter on the floor looks a bit strange (Johnson's shading of the eyes/Liston falling over).
     
  7. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ali never scored a one punch Ko...and we never found Listons Swiss bank acount....But if this was not a dive, there was never a dive
     
  8. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Well he did actually :D