Liston's Jab v.s Holmes's Jab: The better one?

You have to judge their jabs within the entire pallets of each fighter's offense, not as isolated tools.

Liston's was thudding and probing, driving his opponents off balance, splitting defense and setting up distance. Holmes was more based on rhythm and punctuation, while powerful, also thrown to bait openings through errors in anticipation. So, different jabs for different offensive arsenals.

In the end, both fighters relied heavily on their jabs and each had a jab suited to their offense (or you could argue vice versa). I could not argue one as being better than the other given this fact.

 

Agreed.

But one big factor that tips the scales--to me anyway--was the fact that fighters could reach Holmes over that jab with right hands a lot easier than anyone could land right hands on Liston.

 

Good point. I was evaluating their jabs at their best not at their worst. Holmes would indeed leave that jab out there too long and be victim to a good right cross.

 

Good thread, and some excellent insightful comments too.

 

Suzie-q, Oh yeh, I remember what its like to be tagged like that. Gil Mitchell was real big puncher in Mn golden gloves in the seveties, he caught me on the jaw with a right hand and I was sick from my toes to the top of my head. I thought this could kill someone, it was that hard. He may not have known how badly he had me hurt. Former fighter always said Liston only had a power jab, in effect saying it wasn't somehow a real ,,jab? Anyway I disagree, have to give it a draw here.

 

good story, timmers

i remember puking three hours later from a punch some guy threw and i never gave him the benefit of acknowledging in the ring. Tough ****ing sport. I gave it up for talents better elsewhere applied.

I respect all boxers.

 

Holmes is the fastest most precise jab ever, even better than prime Ali...
Charles liston has a jab similar to old man foremans heavy hard and punishing...

Which is the best? Holmes was an allround fighter who used the jab to control, attack and in defense.
Liston was the agressive bully who used his jab to hurt, destroy and demoralize his opponents.

Holmes was better allround, therefor his jab is the best...

 

Holmes, seems like he used it in more ways, could shoot it from the hip or chest, very fast, and stinging.

Although Listons was stronger, and probably the second best. I think Holmes has the best heavyweight jab of all time.

 

Yes, but the faster fighters could also seem to get away from Liston's jab easier than they could Holmes's.

 

IMO Holmes had the best jab out of all of the heavies. He could do what ever he wanted with it, and he could use it to his advantage in any situation.

 

Holmes had the better jab than Liston in every respect except one.

Power.

I am willing to think that Holmses jab might be the best executed in heavyweight history. I think however that the power jabbers like Liston and Louis bring another dimension to the game because they can take sombody out with a jab in a way that other fighters cant. This opens up a world of posibilities.

So take your pick.

 

Seamus, all the respect in the world to you for entering the ring in the first place and going through the rigerous demands of training for how ever long you did boxing. You need to have balls to be a boxer, pure and simple. You got em.

 

True, but Larry's jab was plenty powerful against Ocasio, and he's been reported to dent heavy bags with it to this day. I get the impression that it was much more powerful when he was moving forward behind it. Even now, if he's in an exhibition and some nobody tries to tee off on him, he can use it to put that upstart in his place

Liston did not live long enough for us to discover how long he could have used his jab to remain competitive, but I suspect he would have gotten significantly slower with advancing years and wear. Mobility was integral to the greater versatility of the Holmes jab, and even at 53 against Esch, he moved surprisingly well through all ten rounds, despite his age and weight.