Liston's Legacy Without The Ali Defeats?

Blinding was intentional, Ali claimed that up to his death, there is a interview when Ali was talking about man who came as a fan but was a mobster who offered Ali to do same to Foreman so Ali would win.

That man claimed he helped Liston's corner to do that too.

 

That is exactly what he said in the London interview. Maybe we were watching the same thing. If that's true with the emphasis on if I can't think of a shittier thing to do.

 

I don't hate Liston but he does seem overrated here to me.

 

Dundee believed it was accidental.

Machen only made his accusation after the Feb 64 Miami fight - 4 long years after his fight vs Liston.

There is no evidence of Machen suffering or complaining about any eye discomfort during the course of the Liston fight. Absolutely none.

There was no love lost between Machen and Liston and if there had been foul play - Machen would’ve screamed it from the roof tops as and when.

Machen didn’t hold back claiming that an injured right arm affected his performance to try and excuse himself.

Otherwise, there is NO evidence for any other claims.

It’s just the same member repeating the same absolutely baseless claims.

He’s been asked to produce evidence before but he only ever provides ZIP. Always.

He also conveniently ignores Machen’s own blatantly illegal tactics throughout the fight, holding, holding and hitting, hitting on the break etc.

Liston was in fact one of the cleaner fighters you’ll ever see. He was clearly happy to engage in an honest, open fight - but Machen was not similarly inclined - obviously looking only to preserve himself and survive.

Liston won the fight going away. It was not close. He didn’t cheat and there was no need to.

Suffice to say, said member has a a very strange anti Liston obsession.

 

According to some Liston diehard fans on this forum, he never cheated, they would take Dundee's opinion over Ali's who not only stated he was blinded but met a man involved in that.

But somehow everyone is either lying or somehow delusional like Ali, also they don't like Liston being quitter...he was brave man(against smaller weaker guys) until he met resistance in Ali.

According to them is somebody quits twice but was brave before that against no names, he is not quitter...everyone will do the same.

So anything which hurts Liston legacy is a lie or people listed as stupid like they think Ali is stupid and his opinion is not valid.

If I am opsessed with Liston, wonder in which stadium of opsession is his army of fans on this forum.

So Liston cheated by blinding more than two people= they're lying/delusional, and Liston quitting twice against Ali= he wasn't quitter, he never did that before and his shoulder was injured etc...and they wonder why I am there to say different?

 

If he did that, he would pretty much be the Khabib of boxing. Not the greatest in achievements, but with a nearly spotless record which for many would show he was nigh unbeatable. Of, course the Marshall loss would be brought up by his detractors, but most would recognise that that was a very green Liston. Machen would probably be mentioned and of course the whole "he beat up on small cruiserweights" thing, but all in all he would be seen as a H2H nightmare, at least her in Classic. He kind of is as it is.

 

Oh dear god we would never hear the end of it.

 

wesley pipes jfc

 

It'd be somewhat akin to a prime Tyson retirement, on a lower scale. If Tyson retired post Spinks/Williams loads of people would consider him the greatest, and a virtually invincible H2B force. His overall dominance would be pinpointed and the fact that his reign was chockers with high rated contenders.

Liston's H2H rep would be even higher. Maybe proclaimed him almost invincible after the two Patterson pole axing's. Best since Louis, or better etc. Without the losses he'd be in more top 10's and some top 5's potentially.

 

Sonny should have thought of all this before losing to Ali twice.