Live Fast, Die Young: The Life and Times of Harry Greb

If YOU don't agree with the great boxing writers of the 1940s, DOESN"T
necessarily make THEM fools , as you mistakenly suggest I said they were.
And what the heck does Lennox Lewis ,and Roy jones have to do with this thread ? The writers of Kid Gavilan's and my time were comparing Kid
Gavilan to his contemporaries and the great PAST welterweights.
And I agree. Sue me . cheers.

 

I'd say Greb beating Tunney in two of the first three fights is more impressive .. no doubt the Kid was terrific ... it's an interesting debate ...

 

So, Mc if you infer the "greatness "of Kid Gavilan's 2 close fights with Ray Robinson as being MORE impressive than any of Harry Greb's innumerable wins over heavier Hall of Famers, some who outweighed him by 10-20 pounds, than where the hell does that put a
Marty Servo who gave Ray Robinson 2 terrific disputed decisions ?...You can claim the greatness of Kid Gavilan because of his 2 close losses to Robinson, but it truly is not comparable even remotely, to a Harry Greb's 10-20 pound handicap victories of much larger men time and again...I'll say this once more as an observer of those days,
that a Kid Gavilan with his striking bolo punches, more flash than substance, did lose to many fighters of those days, as Lester Felton, Doug Ratford, Billy Graham, Robert Villemain,,Gene Hairston and others, drew with a super lightweight Johnny Bratton,
and was beaten for his WW title by Johnny Saxton... He ventured to fight the MW Carl Bobo Olsen and lost a decision...Having said this he was a great durable welterweight
but his accomplishments wouldn't be within miles of Harry Greb's amazing record...
Not by a long shot...

 

Reminding the forum Walker vs Rosenbloom was a fix and i got that from the horses mouth.

 

Which camp wuz that horse from?...

 

S, are you horsing around ?

 

Do you remember what they wrote about Ezzard Charles? Many years later after he was retired, the Ring magazine inducted him in their hall of fame AFTER Jersey Joe Walcott, ie they held Walcott in higher regard than Charles.

 

You are referring to my post, obviously, not McGrain's. I never said Robinson's wins over Gavilan was the highest peak of his accomplishments. I merely said that Gavilan is arguably an all-time top 10 fighter P4P. I'm not sure anybody here would rank any of Greb's opponents in all-time top 10. This is not to say Greb needs such a win to be ranked high, and, in my opinion, higher than Ray Robinson, but that'd have been a great bonus. A win over extremely clever and skilful opponent who was at or near his prime, where merely outworking him is not an option for a victory.

 

I DON"T believe that Joe Walcott was EVER regarded as a better fighter than the MW and Lightheavyweight Ezzard Charles... I recall those days very well. If Joe Walcott was elected to the Hall of Fame ,BEFORE Ezzard Charles it was because Joe Walcott RETIRED 6 years before Ezzard Charles did...Ezzard Charles who beat Archie Moore 3 times, Jimmy Bivins, Gus Lesnevich, Joey Maxim, Charley Burley twice as a young MW was always considered a top 5 alltime top LH, whilst the old codger Joe Walcott was
never considered an alltime heavyweight...

 

You are disagreeing that Gibbons was slipping by that time? You said it yourself - "even the 1919 Gibbons" - clearly agreeing that he wasn't the same Gibbons anymore.
Kansas City Times on next Gibbons' fight:
"There was a time in the not yet dim past when Mike Gibbons was called "the St. Paul Phantom." He was introduced as such at the ringside yesterday, but in the ten rounds of rather tame milling that followed he displayed none of his one-time phantom like qualities. "

And they have to be considered more closely. Otherwise it'll be similar to "Tunney adjusted to Greb's style" argument.

It depends on who is the guy with skill and cleverness. I don't know what chance I'd give Gavilan vs Flowers, but that he has a chance (not with the help of an accident or biased judges, that is), I have no doubt about.

I said the big heavyweights he handled are far from impressive, there's a difference. He lost quite a few to them, too.

Was he more clever and/or skilful than Kid Gavilan?

I suppose the only thing that could be done about it is to look at each fight, what the reports said, or, if we have a film, to score it ourselves. This would take a lot of time, but it's the only way to find it out. When I was looking into this matter, I found out a LOT of them could have been scored for Gavilan or a draw at least.

 

Is was from Al Backman whose dad was Rosenblooms Mgr

 

It had nothing to do with the time they retired. Charles was inducted a year or two after Walcott, even though they were on the ballots at the same time. Walcott got more votes from experts. I suppuse that had to do with Walcott's first fight with Louis, whereas Charles "only faced an empty shell of Louis", and Walcott was winning the fight with Marciano, whereas Charles stayed the distance, but lost on points.
Although that's only my own version of why Walcott was voted in before Charles. To me it was absurd and stupid.

 

It is a small world...Many years ago as a young fella, I and a few other guys got into a crap game with a burly fellow. a mature guy who took our money, and turned out to be an ex fighter Bob Olin, who took the LH title from Maxie Rosenbloom... Small world indeed...