Live Fast, Die Young: The Life and Times of Harry Greb

Charles is an interesting case, I think... in that very few boxers, if any, has benefitted as much from the internet era as he has. I mean, seen in relation to how he's regarded today... as opposed to when he was active and many years thereafter. Today, on sites like this, he's seen as a lock for an all time top-10, p4p - and many even have him in their top-5. It wasn't always like this.

Back in the 60's, when I first started to take an interest in boxing, I don't recall him being talked about in such lofty terms. In fact, it took him until 1971 to be inducted into The Ring Hall of Fame... 11 years after his career had ended! Back then you were eligible for induction already 2 years after you had retired... and, indeed, boxers such as Archie Moore and SRR made The Hall in their first year of eligibility. Charles, on the other hand, had to wait 9 years before he was let in!

And when that "other" hall, California-based World Boxing Hall of Fame, held their inaugural induction ceremony back in 1980, Charles wasn't among the 16, who had made the cut. Of the 45 members on the selection committee, only 6 cast a vote for Charles (they could each vote for up to 25 boxers, that had been retired for at least 5 years). It took 28 votes to make the top 16 - and with only 6 votes Charles finished way down in 35th place!

This just to illustrate, how our perception of a boxer can change over time.

 

Kid Gavilan was great but I believe Robinson beat a few or more middleweights who would beat him.
It could be argued that Gavilan was the best fighter Robinson beat, but only in a pound-for-pound sense.

 

Thanks for the recollections. My impressions from reading old newspapers and magazines was similar, that he wasn't that highly regarded for a long time. I used to have him in my top 10, but a few years ago he dropped a few notches for me, because I was somewhat disappointed from what I saw on film. He may be #11 or #12 for me, I don't know. His resume is very impressive.

 

I wouldn't put Ezzard Charles in the top 10 p4p, although I know many people here do. He's not a lock for my top 20 either but yeah, I do reckon he's a fair degree greater than contemporary writers gave him credit for.

 

It may be that Ezzard Charles didn't get his just due to the fact:

1. Charles fought far too long after ceasing to be a top fighter, piling up many losses as a result.
2. Charles didn't have a charismatic personality or a crowd-pleasing fighting style.
3. Charles' peak years were as a light-heavyweight rather than as a heavyweight.
4. Charles and the rest of the top light-heavyweights of the middle 1940s were highly underrated as a group. A great case can be made that the group was the best one ever in the history of the light-heavyweight division. Yet Charles dominated the division during the years after the end of World War II.
5. Charles isn't given enough credit for fighting the best fighters of his era during much of his career while ducking no one as a middleweight, light-heavyweight and heavyweight. In addition, he is given little credit for having far more bouts and fighting in many more rounds than any other world heavyweight champion while facing such tough opposition.
6. Charles isn't given enough credit for having so much success as a middleweight, light-heavyweight or heavyweight.

- Chuck Johnston

 

Just posted the Amazon link to this on my Pittsburgh Boxing History page on Facebook. :smoke

 

While an ATG p4p Charles was never highly regarded at heavyweight in his active years , neither was Walcott.

A Boxing Illustrated poll in the late 50's had them in the middle of the pack, with the comment," not the best and not the worst".

 

Unfortunately when eating at a restaurant, we gage the meal by what we ate last like a cup of coffee...Dame with Ezzard Charles who should be judged as a lightheavyweight ALLTIME great. "Snooks" as he was known by his trainer Ray Arcel beat the likes of Charley Burley TWICE,when he was 21, kod Jimmy bivins, Archie Moore, and 2 decisions, kod Lloyd Marshall,
Elmer Ray, Gus Lesnevich, beat Joe Walcott, Joey Maxim, Bob Satterfield ko etc...But Ezzard stayed active way past his prime and probably was
in the beginning of his disease that later killed him...A great LH and a fine gentleman was the great LH Ezzard Charles...I have him and Billy Conn as the 2 best LHs since Tunney....
P.S. And were Clay and Ezzard to have fought at 175-80, give me Charles...

 

To encourage more talented folks to put in the time to get the word out for their efforts and for we the fans to have more quality published product to read I encourage everyone that is reading or read this outstanding book to post on Amazon ... this is how the word gets out and the author deserves it after all his hard work and for producing such a work ...

 

It has indeed. Already devouring it :smoke Thanks for signing it for me. That was great.

 

Greb, Leonard, and Robinson belong.

I would say Jones, Gavilan, and McFarland are reaches. Mayweather may belong....

 

McFarland was extremely consistent and never lost a newspaper decision or on points (the only loss being by DQ), it's hard to overlook that, whereas Joe Gans, Benny Leonard, Harry Greb, Ray Robinson all had off nights multiple times, and not necessarily against top-notch opposition. Not that Packey was always in perfect shape, but he was so much superior to the rest (including several all-time great fighters) that he found a way to win even under unfavorable conditions.

 

i got this book today....very impressed with the size of it and some great illustrations and pictures on an initial flick through.
really looking forward to digesting it all.
congrats klompton.