Live Fast, Die Young: The Life and Times of Harry Greb

Wow, thank you very much! You make some interesting points. I thought I was a little more fair with Dempsey in the book than I am typically on the forums admitting that while Dempsey no doubt ducked Greb it was a no win situation for him so his reluctance was understandable. I didnt think I was too hard on Tunney. I can see where that criticism could come into play but in saying that Tunney was protected prior to facing Greb I was only repeating what most of the press was saying at the time and trying to illustrate that while Greb's defeat of Tunney has in hindsight become historically important at the time the outcome was expected and it wasnt considered one of Greb's more difficult matchups or opponents. I give Tunney credit for being a total professional, improving his game throughout his career right up until the end, in addition to being in shape, skilled, and tough. My problem with Tunney in the book, and on forums is that in addition to these wonderful qualities he used a lot of outside of the ring shenanigans to tip the odds in his favor rather than simply relying on who was the better man between the ropes. Hopefully that comes across in the book instead of it just looking like Im picking on Tunney. All in all I really appreciate the review. It was interesting to read and entertaining.

 

My approach is basically this: In public I can afford to have opinions. As a historian you should have NO opinion. I tried to take myself and my personal feelings and thoughts out of the equation and let the facts, and the sources tell the story. Whenever I came upon a situation that I felt might be controversial to write one way or the other I simply let the historical record do the talking and let the reader form their own opinion. While I may BELIEVE that Dempsey was protected, overhyped, and avoided challenges its not my job as a historian to convey that to you. Its my job to provide the reasons why I think that and then let you draw your own conclusion. In the case of Greb-Dempsey there is no doubt that Dempsey and Kearns avoided Greb. There is also no doubt that Greb was Dempsey's most problematic and best qualified WHITE challlenger. However, had Dempsey fought Greb and lost he just loses a TON of credibility. Had he fought Greb and won it was expected and he only beat a middleweight so there would be criticism there as well. So I can see why it was easy to avoid Greb and kind of give them a pass on it. My problem arises with Dempsey. He flat out lied for years and said that he never sparred Greb in New York the first time Greb made him look bad. He flat out lied and said no promoter would match them. He basically told a lot of stories about the proposed Greb-Dempsey fight which werent true that hurts his credibility and makes it look like it was an outright duck and not a business decision. Had he just come out said "it was a no win situation" I think we could all understand that and forgive it. His stance and his going out of his way to gloss that part of his history over stands out. But again, I tried to let all of these facts speak for themselves and let the reader draw their own conclusions.

 

Tunney was a very good fighter. There is no doubt about that and I tried to make it clear in the book that he was a tough proposition. Its just a shame that he continually tried to stack the deck in his favor. Johnny Wilson was a good fighter too. Not great but good. He was a hellacious body puncher and very strong. In Wilson's case he knew he wasnt as good as Greb and avoided him like the plague. The affair with Bryan Downey in Cleveland is another stain on his record. Downey really should have been recognized universally as champion. Then Wilson showed a yellow stripe a mile wide against Downey in the ND rematch in New Jersey. Pretty disgraceful. Whether Tunney felt Greb was better or not is debateable but he certainly felt the need to stack the deck in his favor every chance he got. Mike McTigue and Al McCoy were not very good. Those two guys basically lucked into a championship and then clung to it for dear life. Both guys used the old tactic of firing their manager when matched with a difficult proposition to get out of the fight, both hid behind the ND laws, and both avoided their most logical contenders. It says a lot about McCoy that while he was champion he fought on Mike Gibbons' undercard. Battling Levinsky falls somewhere inbetween here. He was a very good fighter in his prime but by the time he sold his championship to Carpentier to set up the Dempsey-Carpentier fight he was no longer as formidible and was dropping newspaper decisions. He refused to put his title on the line and frankly during his reign the LHW title nearly fell of the face of the earth as it had done a couple of other times.