Live Fast, Die Young: The Life and Times of Harry Greb

Addendum: Of course Greb lost a controversial decision to Tiger Flowers
just at 160 pounds, middleweight limit...

 

Let me say that I have been a big admirer of Harry Greb for about forty years. As a result, I tried to read everything about him that I could get my hands on, especially during the 1970s and 1980s. He was truly a marvel as a fighter. But I also think that Sugar Ray Robinson was the best pound-for-pound fighter ever with Greb being in the top two or three in the same category. Robinson had his faults. But over a span of more than twenty years, Robinson was facing top fighters, piling up a tremendous record along the way.

- Chuck Johnston

 

It all depends on how we define "greatest P4P fighter" ? I have Ray Robinson as the" greatest all around fighter " along with the marvelous
lightweight Benny Leonard who was as great a lightweight as Ray Robinson was a welterweight according to people who saw them both in their primes.
But a Harry Greb though not as beautiful to watch had unique qualities that were never duplicated before or after such as tremendous handspeed,
great scooting ability never in one spot to time him, amazing stamina, along with the great chin to absorb occasionally punches from much heavier
LHs and Hwts. As one opponent described the frenetic Greb after being stopped by him " it seemed the ceiling opened up and a carload of gloves came pouring over me ". And as we know Greb beat much heavier men time after time, and aside from his prelim days was never stopped in about
275 bouts...So on the basis of having the ability to challenge and beat
much heavier men than he, much more so than the great Ray Robinson
who knew his limitations, I have Harry Greb who truly feared no one,
and beat everyone heavier he fought as the P4P best...One for the ages...

 

Robert Villemain beat them both, and then Steve Belloise beat Villemain convincingly. I wouldn't count on LaMotta or Gavilan beating Belloise. So it could be one of them ?
Of course LaMotta and Gavilan more famous. But I know we're not swayed by fame.

Robinson beat a lot of good fighters, not sure who I'd call the best of them.

 

A fight that was so close, according to reports, than a draw would have been the most just decision. Had Rene Ouimet given his only even round to Gavilan, or scored one of Villemain's round even, it would have been a draw.

 

Possible but debatable ... either way, Greb fought far better top fighters than Ray did ...

 

To me Kid Gavilan is an all-time Top 10 P4P. I honestly don't see on Greb's resume a win comparable to Ray's two wins over Gavilan. Even though I rank Greb (#3) ahead of Robinson (#5).

 

Senya, I hope you are joking...Ray Robinson's 2 close defeats of the same weighted Kid Gavilan doesn't come close to Greb's whipping such bigger and stronger men than Gene Tunney, Tommy gibbons, Tommy loughran, Jack Dillon, Battling Levinsky, Billy Miske, Maxie Rosenbloom, Gunboat Smith, Kid Norfolk etc, all who outweighed Greb by many pounds...And how Greb soundly beat a prime Mickey Walker, while way past his peak, one year before he retired was a great feat...Evidently you believe that giving up 10-20 pounds to great fighters like Greb did, doesn't trump Robinson beating the WW Gavilan in 2 close decisions .? Strange...

 

Whoa Chachi!

Gavilan top 10 P4P? You are getting more than a bit over you ski's on the Hawk. He had a great career, probably top 50 or 60, had some rough decisions, but he also lost plenty.

I would say Gene Tunney and Tommy Gibbons are both superior fighters.

 

Which wins on Mickey Walker's welterweight resume should impress me that much to have him ahead of Gavilan? As for Mike Gibbons, as great as he was, he was slipping by the time he met Greb, as the following bouts with Jeff Smith and Mike O'Dowd proved. While we are at it, do you know what 'secondary referee' is? This thing had me puzzled about the Gibbons-O'Dowd bout, what task did George Barton and Ed Shave have in that no-decision bout?
"George Barton, Minneapolis, and Ed L. Shave, St. Paul, sport writers, who acted as secondary referees, both gave the fight to O'Dowd." (AP)

 

To me Kid Gavilan should be higher on the all-time P4P list than any of the fighters you listed.

A lot of his losses I consider highly controversial. Tunney and T. Gibbons superior fighters? You gotta be kidding.

 

And I didn't say 'best win', I consider Gavilan to be the 'best fighter' Robinson beat. That is, even Henry Armstrong, despite that bout not meaning much if anything, would be among the 'best fighters' Robinson beat.