Lloyd Honeyghan is way too underrated!

Do you see me comparing Curry's resume to Chavez's at welterweight? I am talking about the night that Chavez faced Whitaker and the night Curry faced Honeyghan. Chavez looked better to me than Curry did that night. If we're going to look at expectations, well Chavez was expected to beat Whitaker. So you can consider Whitaker whipping him an upset.

McGirt would beat them all I'm pretty confident of that. I'd favour Chavez over them all too. Again, keep in mind what i've said about Curry. I think Chavez on the fight he faced Pea beats Curry the night he faced Honeyghan.

Yeah.... so? They don't really amount to much for Whitaker's claim as a welterweight. I don't deny it.

 

Well, good for you for going by the book. I prefer to use my own mind to analyse things where it's possible and come up with my own opinion. I'm not going to call Whitaker-Chavez a draw just because two inept officials did. Likewise I'm not going to say Lloyd's the man for whipping the no.2 in the world p4p. I'll look at the fight and see what I see. I see Curry looking bad. I see Curry looking WORSE than he did in other fights where he was weight drained. You see a stat. Again, good for you.

 

If the Chavez that fought one night near his best as a welterweight the night he fought Whitaker shows up against Rosi, Blocker and Vaca, yes I think he beats them. I think he's a better boxer than all three, even if he's unable to outmuscle them to the extent he did against smaller fighters and apply heavy pressure. I think his chin is good enough to take anything they can give him.

Maybe they do hold Honeyghan in higher regard (maybe they don't btw), but do they hold Vaca, Blocker and Rosi in higher regard? Afterall, we're talking about Lloyd's resume here. They asnwer is a resounding **** NO!
Do they hold the Curry of the Honeyghan fight in higher regard? Again, good luck finding anyone to pick that Curry over McGirt.

Chavez was a slight favourite amongst the experts and a large favourite amongst the fans/betters.

So because he has a height and reach advantage he beats Chavez? Oh and because he has beaten other welterweights? (Like who other than an old Marlon Starling in his last fight by an MD?) Yes, very good analytical skills.

 

He never beat anyone that is 6'2. He did beat taller fighters than himself though (Mayweather, Aguilar, Cortes, Kamau, Parisi, Jakubowski, Smith etc.) and didn't really seem to struggle with any of them. Not a lot of quality fighters there, but it's not like they stretched Chavez out to his limit either to be making a massive issue about height.

When did he beat a welterweight? Well, he beat quite a few guys AT welterweight. No one really good. I don't think that means he couldn't beat anyone good there though, because he wasn't struggling with the fighters he was fighting there. He was showing himself to be way above their level. I think the Chavez that fought Whitaker, though small was still an excellent fighter and would definitely trouble and imo beat B level welters like the aforementioned (Rosi, Vaca, Blocker).

Chavez did not fight bad against Whitaker. He put up an excellent effort. It's just that he came across Whitaker in the best shape of his welterweight life and got outboxed. It's not like it wouldn't have happen to Vaca, Rosi or Blocker. Whitaker that night would have bamboozled them all, easily.

Chavez was not the same fighter after that night with Whitaker. He lost motivation, never trained as hard for a fight and lost confidence in his own ability. Not to mention the obvious, he was getting old. He could no longer do what he once could, even if he wanted to. Chavez left anything that was special about him out in that ring with Whitaker.

 

I think it's a shame that Honeyghan gets no credit for beating up Don Curry.
"Weight-drained" is the lamest excuse a boxer can ever use, esp. when he's been fighting in that very same weight class all the time. Pathetic excuse. BOTH FIGHTERS have to make weight. Making weight is part of the fight. I reckon Curry was very confident he could win until Honeyghan started beating him.
Honeyghan was undefeated too, going in to the Curry fight, but if he'd tasted defeat there who would have listened to his excuses ?

 

Nobody simply because Honeyghan had never risen to within light years of where Curry had been sitting for ages. Curry had beaten the finest welterweights available in excellent to white hot fashion, Lloyd had beaten mostly nobody. When a fighter such as Curry not only loses to an unheralded challenger but also looks so bad comparable to his average form to any astute viewer we tend to sit up and take notice. It's easy to see Curry was far from his usual self both in physique and form. There were whispers in Curry's prior fight. There is also a story or two about why he stayed at 147, but it's all been said before and is not worth me rehashing.

Credit too goes to Honeyghan for being a MUCH much finer fighter than most anyone had envisioned. It was a combination of Curry being sub par and Honeyghan being superb. He proved himself a very decent fighter, while Curry showed he one one of these more fragile fighters who never seems to quite get over that first image damaging loss.

 

Fair enough. You make good points.
(I guess that's similar to how we all know something was wrong with Clay-Liston 1, a guy like Liston losing to a kid like Clay in that fashion.)

I still think "weight drain" is generally a bad excuse. Making weight is basic to the sport, it's fundamental.

(Hey, if I think about it hard enough, maybe Tyson-Douglas can be written off as a "sub par" abberation on Tyson's part.)

Then again, Curry tried taking on Mike McCallum, an underrated fighter at the time, and a man who could have done the same against the best pre-Honeyghan version of Don Curry, IMO.

 

Sonny it seems you are intent on giving Lloyd credit for the win. That's fine. But ask yourself this; which other welterweights would have beaten Donald Curry the night he faced Honeyghan?

If you don't compile a long list, you're not being honest with yourself.

 

I dont really know the answer.
But I think Honeyghan came right at Curry and didn't really give him much chance to fire. Other good welterweights might have stood off in awe, wondering what Curry was going to do, and Curry might have iced them early.
Honeyghan went out there and bullied him.

 

Fair enough, I don't think there was much there for other good welters to be in awe of really (and it wasn't as if Curry was only traditionally known for fighting on the outside and couldn't handle himself on the inside with pressure fighters. His in-game was one of his best facets), but I could be wrong.

 

Raggamuffin was a good fighter and a great character.
Maybe not a ATG but just a level below

 

Chavez could box though, he wasn't just a one dimensional pressure fighter. In fact he had to rely on his boxing ability quite a bit at the tail end of his career. E.g. the few moments he enjoyed against Randall (especially in the rematch) came when Chavez outboxed Randall, not outslugged him.

As for Chavez moving back down to 140 after 1994, well obviously he was more comfortable there, but what was he going to do, hang around for another lesson from Whitaker?

Anyway, Chavez was showing himself superior to C and D level fighters at welterweight as you said, no that doesn't show that he beats some B level champions, but what it does show is that Chavez was above D or C level himself because he was handling those fighters with ease. So at the very least you can't scoff at his chances against the Rosis (who did **** all himself at 147 btw), Blockers and Vacas.