Lloyd Marshall W10 Jake LaMotta - Retrospective

It proves that their was a significant disparity between the black murderers row and the Lamotta, Zale, Abrams, Soose drew.

Yes, it was a true representation of Lamottas abilities. Lloyd Marshall was a beast. He could have been both middleweight and light heavyweight champion had either Zale or Lesnevich gave him a shot.

Tony Zale lost twice to Nate Bolden whom wasn’t good enough to be considered a black murderers row member. After the second defeat, Zale never took on a black fighter again. Zale is a great fighter and a great man, but his resume has gigantic Holes in it.

Marshall legacy wise...he defeated Ezzard Charles, Joey Maxim, Charley Burley, Holman Williams, Jake La Motta, Anton christoforidas, Lou brouillard, teddy yarosz, Ken Overlin, and well past his prime knocked out light heavyweight champ Mills in 5 rounds. That is the resume of an ATG. He was a tweener, super middleweight would have been perfect weight class for him. Still, he beat great fighters weighing 160 and beat great fighters at 175.

I don’t think it detracts from lamottas legacy, the loss to Marshall. He was one of the few white fighters of the era willing to take on all comers of the black murderers row. The murderers row would have exposed and decisively defeated the white champions at 160 and 175


Remember, the light heavyweight division was the same as the middleweight division in terms of black murderers row being shunned. Lesnevich ducked Charles and like the plague 46-48 which forced Charles to move up to heavyweight. Lesnevich finally cashed out against Charles in 49 and got destroyed in 7. Moore was ducked for 6 years until 1952 where he made peanuts to finally get his shot. Burley and Williams not getting any title shots in 41-42 or in 1946 at 160 is a travesty. Marshall was avoided for nearly a decade at 160 and 175.

 

It was LaMotta's level. Reminds me of two other bouts LaMotta had in Cleveland in 1941. Also, the loss to Basora in 1942, all fights alike in LaMotta being outpointed rather easily for 6-8 rounds, only to throw all caution to the wind in the last two rounds in an attempt to overcome big points margin in favor of his opponents. Same as it was in bout vs Zivic, where Fritzie was robbed, having outpointed LaMotta easily except for last couple of rounds.

 

I forgot the bout with Woods just prior to Marshall, same story, LaMotta being outpointed from the start, only to stage a comeback in the last rounds. Also unpopular decision.

Improved after 1945? Not based on Robinson bout in Feb 1945, not based on Lytell bout in April 1945. Old veteran Holman Williams gave LaMotta a lesson, although Jake probably did outwork him to gain a decision. Jake was also outpointed by "overstuffed welterweight" in Sep 1947. Lester almost outpointed LaMotta, despite being huge underdog. Another big underdog Yarosz (brother of former mw champion) outpointed him in early rounds. Etc.

 

"two other bouts LaMotta had in Cleveland in 1941"

In fairness, wasn't LaMotta 19 in 1941?

Still, the point that LaMotta was erratic is well taken, in the end losing 5 of 6 to a welter Robinson, with his title win over Cerdan coming when Cerdan was 33 and injured in the fight. Otherwise he seems to have lost a lot even while still in his twenties.

 

At that time he was a Welter fighting Middles. 5 of those 6 fights I believe Ray was giving away weight. LaMotta knew how to press that advantage. He knew how to use that weight. He even slammed Cerdan to the floor later on in his career.

Later when Robinson grew into more of a middleweight it was a different story.

 

I respect LaMotta and have more confidence in him as a fighter than many of those other white champions that avoided them all together. Yea he dropped some fights and his resume isn't as neat and tidy but at least he was a man about it.

 

Speculating but I think his weight fluctuations took their toll. Like anything destructive you can get away with it for awhile but you keep going to that Well it's gonna dry up.

Also the fact that Jake was Nuts didn't help sustain.

 

LaMotta was early in his career (3 yrs) and the smaller man after looking at Marshalls resume it is clear that he was a dangerous fighter and very talented one at that....as far as him handling LaMotta well OK but since there is no film was it just a good bigger man beating a good smaller man and or was it a styles matchup miscalculated? we will never know.....the murderers row fighters were fantastic no doubt but IMO they were avoided not just because they were too good but because they were black remember that white fighters were using ethnic name changes to appeal to the ethnicity that was popular at the time I am sure LaMotta was a handful for any top fighter depending on his mood.....It is my impression that if a 150lb SRR with his style could beat LaMotta a 170+ lb similarly stylish fighter could certainly beat him if SRR could hurt him certainly Marshall could and did...but at the end of the day was it Marshall tooting his horn because he was avoided and LaMotta won a title giving his own credibility a boost with mainstream fans? hardcore fans know Marshall IMO probably and why not.....I though do not think that the 1944 LaMotta 3 yrs into his career was the LaMotta that was also being avoided as a title challenger and played games and threw fights in the late 40's etc....to get a shot the difference was LaMotta wasn't avoided because of ethnicity it was his unwillingness to be a mob fighter where Marshall and the rest of the row were simply shut out....because of race. It was sad but the bottom line is none of these guys fought the matured seasoned LaMotta and the young 22 yr old version is who Marshall beat and who he thinks of when matched against the rest of murderers row. Oh well for all I know LaMotta was better in 44 than he was vs Cerdan or Dauthille? LaMotta looked like a tornado vs Cerdan from the footage that exists

 

Ezzard Charles vs Lloyd Marshall Fight #2:

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1946-07-29 : Ezzard Charles 169 lbs beat Lloyd Marshall 171¾ lbs by KO at 0:57 in round 6 of 10

• Location: Crosley Field, Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
• Referee: Earl Butler

"Ezzard Charles, Cincinnati, knocked out Lloyd Marshall, Cleveland, in :57 seconds of the 6th round of a scheduled 10 round bout at Crosley field last night. Charles held a slight lead at the outset in defeating the only fighter who ever knocked him out. Marshall, an orthodox, stand-up type of fighter, was met with a vicious left hook under the heart shortly after the 6th round bell. He reached to grab his opponent and was knocked to the floor with a right to the mid-section." Associated Press

The Cincinnati Enquirer reported that Marshall rushed across the ring at the bell, and dropped Charles with a left hook. Charles appeared to be more surprised than hurt, and took a nine-count on one knee. Charles did not appear to be hurt upon rising.

• Attendance - 10,143
• Gate - $33,099

 

That's why I listed several other bouts that looked similar (in contemporary accounts), with LaMotta being far behind on points until there were only a couple of rounds left. Jake depended on body punching to wear his opponents down (this goes back to his amateur days), but he was a slow starter too. If his opponents were clever and skillful enough to avoid allowing him get in close, if they used footwork and jabs and counters, LaMotta was behind on points. Sometimes he wasn't able to catch up.

 

I heartily recommend "Murderers Row" by Springs Toledo,it gives great insight into these avoided fighters.

 

Marshall became a mob fighter and was compelled to, "do business " on occasion.