Loma is too small for 135

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Tyson379, Sep 5, 2018.


  1. Badbot

    Badbot You can just do things. Full Member

    46,361
    34,539
    Apr 17, 2011
    True, but that doesn't mean it automatically works.

    When it comes to the Demarco and Thompson fights, Linares would try and roll his head with punches. He literally would at times slam his head into a punch.
    It was an absolutely ridiculous tactic that cost him a lot in both fights.

    DeMarco actually started off boxing Linares. The whole "walked him down" is a myth. Yes, he did walk him down, but that was in the later rounds when Linares was breaking apart.
    And no, Linares did not loose because he started bleeding, he lost because DeMarco figured him out.

    DeMarco made Linares miss a lot of shots early. He fought quite defensively. By the 3rd DeMarco had figured out Linares's speed.
    DeMarco was landing crisp counters from the opening round. It was Linares who was on the front foot, not DeMarco.

    Against Thompson, Linares again tried to roll with punches and he got clipped.
    In the opening minute, Thompson clearly hurt Linares on the ropes. but what is forgotten is Linares hurt him too with a brilliant counter combination?
    Why did he land the combo? Because Thompson would lean in(like Dejan) when setting up the right hand. The same right hand he had clipped Linares 2 or 3 times in the opening minute. But this time, instead of rolling with it(which did not work) Linares easily countered him.
    Every jab Linares landed was when Thompson stepped with the lead foot. He would step and slightly lean in.

    But credit to Thompson, he perfectly timed a lazy jab from Linares and set up his huge right hand. Thompson did not lean in, but he slightly bobbed and weaved from side to side, hiding his right hand.
    Again, the second right hand wasn´t even set up, he just saw an opening and let it go. Linares did see it coming, but his counter was too late and too wide.

    I can't find the Arakawa fight but it was another pressure fighter like Dejan and Linares timed him perfectly throughout.

    Dejan is overrated and extremely predictable. That's why he got KTFO in back to back fights.
     
  2. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

    7,436
    4,030
    May 7, 2016
    Fair enough I can’t disagree with your breakdown, however I do think Linares doesn’t hit hard and i do think he is prone to pressure. He likes space, he is a lot like Kahn he is an excellent counter puncher and throws lovely combos but if you really put the heat on this guy he can be broken down and clipped.

    Dejan is gunna struggle with power punch straigh punchers with a good jab. He has poor defense so Garcia, Berchelt guys like that, who lead with the 1-2 are gunna beat him up but if you ain’t got power he can be a menace. Unfortunately for him Mikey took his soul.
     
  3. Badbot

    Badbot You can just do things. Full Member

    46,361
    34,539
    Apr 17, 2011
    Mikey didn't do ****(besides KTFO and expose him).
    The last guy that KO'd Dejan was not some puncher. Heck, not even Garcia is a monstrous puncher.

    Dejan was easy to tie up, Burns and Petrov are great examples. And Petrov landed a lot of clean shots on Dejan.
    But most importantly, Linares has enough power to garner anyone's respect. If he clips you, you will feel it.
     
  4. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

    7,436
    4,030
    May 7, 2016
    Mikey is a formidable puncher, he ain’t huge puncher but let him catch you coming in you are going to hit the deck for sure.

    If he hasn’t got a KO in years man, where is this power.
     
  5. Badbot

    Badbot You can just do things. Full Member

    46,361
    34,539
    Apr 17, 2011
    Agree on Mikey.
    Linares can obviously punch. Look at what he did to Mitchell. But he is far from a one punch type of guy. He can knock guys down(Crolla, Cambell, Loma) and thats why no one will ever just run through him. He has enough to garner respect.
    I think he focuses too much on speed. Same with the upcoming prospect Ryan Garcia. Both can clearly punch, but a step up in competition and the power seems to dissipate.
    They rely too heavily on speed and don't follow through.
     
  6. jmashyaka

    jmashyaka Boxing Addict Full Member

    7,436
    4,030
    May 7, 2016
    They rely to much on combination, they don’t use their legs enough because they throw in bunches and admire their work. I never understand why these guys with fast handspeed don’t lead with the jab. A lot of them could win fights easier if they just jabbed and occasionally threw the flurries.

    I don’t rate Ryan one bit, this guy is an accident waiting to happen imo.
     
    Pimp C and Badbot like this.
  7. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    79,299
    129,446
    Jul 21, 2009
    The fact that he only weighed 3lbs above the lightweight limit and the same as he weighed for half his fights at 126 and all his fights at 130 give or take a pound or at most two should tell you that he's not a natural lightweight. Even Cuban midgets like Gamboa (ie. the guy who rocked Crawford down to his soul with a solitary right hand and had him on wobbly legs and his head foggy for at least 60 seconds) who had only moved up to 135 one fight prior to facing Crawford and are considered small for 135 had a full 7lbs on Loma, whereas Crawford who was coming in as heavy as 152 and 153 when he was campaigning at 135 had 15lbs on Loma.
     
  8. Badbot

    Badbot You can just do things. Full Member

    46,361
    34,539
    Apr 17, 2011
    Agreed. Well Linares has learner to rely more on the jab.
    But just jabbing is not enough. You have to know how to use it. Linares kept throwing out a lazy jab vs Thompson and got KTFO because of it.
     
    jmashyaka likes this.
  9. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    79,299
    129,446
    Jul 21, 2009
    In a recent feature Sky Sports did most of their pundits had Loma P4P#1 and of course they're right.


    Tony Bellew's top 10


    1 - Vasyl Lomachenko (11-1-KO9)


    There was no doubt at all putting him at No 1. He is the hardest man in boxing to beat and he is a perfectly balanced boxer, in offence and defence. I am not sure he can, or needs to improve, but the more experienced he gets, the more we will see from him.


    2 - Terence Crawford (33-0-KO24)
    He can fight, he can box, he's a slickster, he can turn southpaw, he is a good body-puncher and he can go the 12 rounds. Absolutely unbelievable. What a brilliant, brilliant fighter.


    3 - Gennady Golovkin (38-0-1-KO34)
    He might not be impossible to beat like Lomachenko, but the power he carries and the way he gets the job done mean he deserves to remain high up on anyone's list.



    4 - Oleksandr Usyk (15-0-KO11)
    I've always rated him, but he needed a big name, a big fight to make everyone else sit up. Well, he just cleaned up one of the hardest divisions in the sport.


    5 - Mikey Garcia (39-0-KO30)
    The way he has gone through the divisions with his fighting style is just brilliant. A mixture of Juan Manuel Marquez and Juan Diaz with his punch variety, and he is so businesslike in the ring.


    6 - Errol Spence Jr (24-0-KO21)
    He is probably the most underrated world champion out there. He doesn't do anything that stands out but he doesn't have to, because this guy does the basics so well. He is also a vicious, vicious body-puncher.


    7 - Naoya Inoue (16-0-KO14)
    Dangerous in every way, shape or form. He will get tested in the World Boxing Super Series at bantamweight, once he goes past four rounds, but your money has to be on him.

    8 - Anthony Joshua (21-0-KO19)
    He is at eight simply on his achievements. Everything is about timing and he has achieved everything he can in boxing, in four or five years. That alone deserves massive recognition.


    9- Saul Alvarez (49-1-2-KO34)
    I didn't want to put him in, but what can you do? He should be banned for what he's done out of the ring, but as a fighter, he is phenomenal. He is powerful and the best counter-puncher around.



    10 Luis Nery (26-0-KO20)

    Another one that I would rather see banned, but is here solely on what he does in the ring. He is relentless in everything he does and is just exciting to watch. One of the most dangerous guys down in the lower weights.


    Carl Froch's Top 10


    1 - Vasyl Lomachenko (11-1-KO9)

    We already knew he had unrivalled skill but the way he got up off the floor and fought through a shoulder injury against a tremendous opponent in Jorge Linares proved his toughness matches his boxing ability. He is now the complete fighter.


    He is now the complete fighter.
    Froch on Lomachenko

    2 - Terence Crawford (33-0-KO24)
    This guy has tremendous ability and a real nasty streak to go with it. Crawford is racing through the divisions and the best is maybe yet to come.



    3 - Naoya Inoue (16-0-KO14)
    Another multi-weight world champion. Inoue might just be the best body puncher on the planet, right now. Hadouken!



    4 - Oleksandr Usyk (15-0-KO11)
    To have achieved so much after so few fights is astounding. His performance against Murat Gassiev was a masterclass. He could well be a future No 1, as well.


    5 - Srisaket Sor Rungvisai (48-2-KO38)
    The Thai came from nowhere to twice beat Roman Gonzalez and proved it wasn't a fluke. He can bang for such a small guy and then beating the brilliant Juan Francisco Estrada, was the icing on the cake.



    6 - Mikey Garcia (39-0-KO30)
    Garcia has come back from a long lay-off better than ever. He seems to have a real desire to be great and is hunting fights with the best.


    7 - Gennady Golovkin (38-0-1-KO34)
    He may not quite be be the force of 18 months ago, but he will be on anybody's list. 'GGG' is still a formidable figure and will remain one until he retires.

    8 - Errol Spence Jr (24-0-KO21)
    Another beautiful body-puncher but has way more to his game than just that. He has made two defences of his belt in 2018 and I am sure he will rise up this list in the coming years.

    9 - Saul Alvarez (49-1-2-KO34)
    The Clenbuterol saga and subsequent Golovkin rematch cancellation puts a cloud over 'Canelo', but he is still a fearsome combination puncher.


    10 - Leo Santa Cruz (35-1-1-KO19)
    He might be a surprise on people's lists but his recent victory over Abner Mares secured his position as the No 1 featherweight in the world.

    Johnny Nelson's top 10

    1 - Gennady Golovkin (38-0-1-KO34)

    He might not be on the way up like some fighters on this list but he deserves to be No 1. He is unbeatable, he just keeps fighting, stays active - unlike some of the others - and against a very good 'Canelo', just showed his ring awareness and smartness.


    He is unbeatable, he just keeps fighting, stays active - unlike some of the others - and against a very good Canelo, just showed his ring awareness and smartness.
    Nelson on Golovkin

    2 - Terence Crawford (33-0-KO24)
    He's a three-weight world champion, cleaned up super-lightweight and jumped straight up. It's not just about winning either. He's smooth and cute and he knows how to win in style.



    3 - Vasyl Lomachenko (11-1-KO9)
    There is that much talent out there and this is subjective, so you could argue he is the No 1. He is not unbeaten and he is far from the finished article. Look at the same list in one or two years' time.


    4 - Saul Alvarez (49-1-2-KO34)
    I rate this guy and thought he boxed brilliantly against Golovkin. I didn't expect him to box so well and don't forget, he has still only lost to the very best.


    5 - Oleksandr Usyk (15-0-KO11)
    When I saw him twist Wladimir Klitschko up in sparring for the Joshua fight, I knew he was going to be a world champion, no matter what. His skills for his size are unreal. His footwork is top draw and he's another one who is nowhere the finished article.


    6 - Anthony Joshua (21-0-KO19)
    I've got to throw him in there because he's proved it. He is the first to admit there is more to come from him, too. He has taken on the best he can and has beaten them.


    I do like 'Mikey' but at the moment, he doesn't stand out and give me that buzz. The time out hasn't helped but give him a gut-checking fight, I think he'll shoot straight up this list.

    8 - Errol Spence Jr (24-0-KO21)
    He is yet to move up, but his pure talent gets him in here. He man-handled Kell Brook, and destroyed Lamont Peterson as the champion.

    9 - Deontay Wilder (40-0-KO39)
    He's got everything he needs for success - height, weight, reach, strength and confidence, and he is heavyweight world champion. He is braggadocious and our sport needs that.

    10 - Naoya Inoue (16-0-KO14)
    From what we've seen, he already looks unstoppable. I do think he will come out on top in the World Boxing Super Series as well. It will elevate him to the top five.
     
  10. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    79,299
    129,446
    Jul 21, 2009
    Matt Macklin's top 10

    1 - Vasyl Lomachenko (11-1-KO9)

    He could possibly be the most gifted boxer we've ever seen. Lomachenko is just sensational. He is just on a different level than the rest and although we are talking miniscule amounts, his skill, his class, everything about him stands out.



    He could possibly be the most gifted boxer we've ever seen
    Macklin on Lomachenko


    2 - Mikey Garcia (39-0-KO30)
    He is coming to his peak now. I think he is crying out for that signature fight, but it could well have to come against Lomachenko or Crawford. But until then, he has everything.



    3 - Terence Crawford (33-0-KO24)
    He's been a top fighter for a while but he is right on top of his game. They're just aren't any weaknesses to 'Bud'. He is clever, he hits hard, he's strong, wiry. He just has it all.





    4 - Gennady Golovkin (38-0-1-KO34)
    I don't think he is the fighter he was, but of course 'GGG' is still top drawer. He has had a hectic schedule over the last five years - three or four fights a year - but is slipping back a bit.


    5 - Saul Alvarez (49-1-2-KO34)
    I was reluctant to put him in here but we are talking about talent and success. I do think he lost to Golovkin but the fact is, any highlight reel of that fight will be on him. He is still fresh and fast.




    6 - Oleksandr Usyk (15-0-KO11)
    One of the stand-out amateurs that has really stood up. Watching him make the World Boxing Super Series look relatively easy was unbelievable. He's only had 15 fights but already looks top drawer.


    7 - Errol Spence Jr (24-0-KO21)
    You could say he hasn't had to prove himself against the best yet, but in time he looks like he will do just that. Technically he is superb. Great jab, good body shots, good feet, distance and timing.

    8 - Jermall Charlo (27-0-KO21)
    The Charlo twins are both full of belief and have that nasty streak, but Jermall is the one I think will go on and establish himself as a big name in boxing. He could well take over the middleweight division.


    9 - Naoya Inoue (16-0-KO14)
    Jamie McDonnell might have been very tight at the weight, but 'The Monster' just blitzed him - and he's done that to plenty of people. Four weight divisions, three world titles, just something very special.


    10 - Anthony Joshua (21-0-KO19)
    We saw his heart when he got up off the canvas to beat Wladimir Klitschko but we have now seen his patience, sticking to a gameplan and controlling things behind that jab. He is still going to get better, so takes the final place from Keith Thurman, who hasn't boxed for 17 months.

    And in the Sky Sports poll as voted for by fans Loma came out on top again and of course they're right as well.

    1. Loma
    2. GGG
    3. Crawford
    4. Usyk
    5. Garcia (Michael)
    6. Spence (ROFL)
    7. AJ
    8. Inoue
    9. Clenelo
    10. SSR
     
    Perkin Warbeck likes this.
  11. Gil Gonzalez

    Gil Gonzalez Boxing Addict banned Full Member

    3,607
    2,859
    Jun 15, 2012
    Wrist size matters. :deal:
     
  12. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

    34,921
    37,496
    Aug 28, 2012
    I thought that was shoe size?
     
  13. IKSAB

    IKSAB Boxing Addict banned Full Member

    4,411
    1,180
    Nov 29, 2014
    Crawdaddy>Gamboa>Salido>Loma :sisi1


    Crawford clear p4p top dog :ladiesman:
     
  14. Cafe

    Cafe Sitzpinkler Full Member

    38,022
    7,626
    Sep 2, 2011
    He's defintely not a natural LW, almost every guy there is bigger than him.

    Linares who's not even a big LW was significantly bigger, Mikey is the same. Easter is comically bigger than him so is Beltran, Campbell etc... Anyone who denounces this basic fact is an idiot.

    Yeah Pacquiao went up to WW but he himself is not a natural WW and he had a bigger frame than Loma, not to mention his power for some reason carried up.

    Duran fought in a different era with not so much weight cutting.
     
  15. Pimp C

    Pimp C Too Much Motion Full Member

    122,841
    34,812
    Jun 23, 2005
    Stop it! So I guess Maidana Canelo Oscar Mosely Cotto Baldo Berto Hatton Ortiz Guerrero JLC were all smaller? PBF was routinely outweighed in his career on fight night even in his fights at 130 and 135. HBO used to post the fight night weights of his fights all the time back in the day and he was usually outweighed in the ring by his opponents. Lastly you can't go from 130-154 and not be the smaller man at times.
     
    The Akbar One and IKSAB like this.