Lomachenko

Did Floyd not arguably lose to Castillo in the first fight but got a gift? Either way would’ve been a good fight.

 

Loma would befuddle Floyd.

 

Oh, that triple jab last night was one of the finest things I’ve seen in Boxing.

Absolutely sublime.

 

Loma's footwork is just amazing. He floats in and out like a gazelle. He's by far p4p #1 at the moment in terms of pure boxing skill.

 

Orlando Canizales has been mentioned a few times, and I can certainly see similarities in the way a peak Canizales would create openings with his footwork. The second fight with Billy Hardy is probably the best example of this; Canizales in some fights though seemed to be going through the motions in a way you couldn't imagine Loma doing.

I've seen some people compare him to Meldrick Taylor and a primetime Camacho sr, but I don't really see it.

Splitting hairs a bit, but Floyd didn't have the best run at 135. Both Castillo fights were close, and he wasn't exactly electrifying against Augustus, Sosa and NDou. He looked far better at 130. Whether that was down to the weight, or just a general dip in performances at that time of his career, is open to debate.

I'd want to see a bit more from Loma before I could pick him over Floyd (at any weight) with confidence. Linares gave him plenty of trouble, and there's obviously a huge gap between Linares and Mayweather. Floyd had a good sized frame that was able to handle 147 comfortably, and he'd probably be the bigger man in the ring against Loma.

Lomachenko reminds me of Roy Jones a bit (not necessarily stylewise) in that he looks so overwhelmingly good via the eyetest, that it's difficult to get a true perspective as to exactly how good he is.

 

He’s had 400+ fights, mate. If you can’t see how good he is now then you’re in the wrong game.

He makes the champs QUIT. He embarrassed the best in his division.

 

397 of those were in a different sport.

Lomachenko is great, no question. As to exactly how great a pro he is, we should probably all calm down a bit until his best win is someone better than Jorge Linares.

 

Different sport? Ok...

So Walters, Russel & Rigo (especially) are mediocre?

 

Yes, different rules, different equipment, different format. Success in one does not automatically correlate with another. As evidenced by the greatest amateur in history losing in his second pro fight against a guy with 12 previous losses.

Curious strawman. Walters and Russell are/were very good, but unlikely to be HOF bound at any point. Rigo may well be, but he was moving up two divisions and past his prime; in the grand scheme of things it's like Mayweather beating Marquez.

Loma's resume is pretty thin for a p4p #1, never mind in comparison to ATGs. Lomachenko is my favourite active fighter (along with Inoue), but there's nothing wrong with reserving a bit of judgement until he fights more HOF-level opposition. The only guy who is even arguably in that bracket is Rigo.

 

1) Pretty sure Loma was still active why the head guards got removed, so hardly that different. Yeah lost his second fight, but won 3 titles in 3 different divisions within 12 fights .

2) Within 12-13 fights he beat an elite talent in Rigo, embarrassed “the man” in his division in Walters, great wins in Russel & Linares, and Tank won’t go near him. What else can he go?

 

I think the WSB fights can be pretty much counted toward his pro fights in terms of analysing how good he is.

Canizales is a great shout. As for the 135 argument against Floyd, I think people need to consider that that was a more aggressive Floyd and he wasn't small for 135, whereas Loma is. Floyd's reach is absolutely huge for his size actually. Linares did give Loma a competitive fight but I had him up fairly clearly despite the lack of ability to throw his right hook. I wouldn't confidently pick either man in honesty.

Agree somewhat with the resume talk. I don't think being a HOF fighter really matters as entrance to the HOF isn't necessarily based on skill nor does it take into context on the depth of talent at the time of induction. He has a lot of good wins and has looked excellenbt enough in doing so for him to be P4P1 IMO, especially with there not being clear arguments from other fighters. The only W available to him that can solidify that is Garcia, though his ability is now - wrongly - questioned by some. Otherwise all he can do is padding out that record further against good to very good fighters. Tank, Berchelt, Commey and Campbell help that massively, despite none of them being 'elite' fighters themselves.

 

There is little doubt that the ability Lomachenko brings to the table makes him a P4P great . His preparation basically from birth by his Father utilising other disciplines such as gymnastics, dancing etc. has resulted in a skill set which stereotypical boxers not being able to cope . Ironically his pro loss to Salido who was probably the least technical of his opponents ! He basically fought an ugly fight and probably prevented Lomachenko from working his magic , could it be done again ? Who knows ? To beat Lomachenko currently seems a tall order.

 

Time really. More of the same, and his greatness becomes undeniable. He could turn out to be the defining fighter of his era, or he could be another Curry, Nunn or Mosley - exceptional talents who at one point looked the best fighter in the world, but came unstuck in fights they were expected to win. Sometimes it takes a full career for this all to play out.

It's not a criticism of Loma; as much as any fighter in this era he gives zero ****s and dares to be great. It's an acknowledgement though that he's only half way though a career that will probably have twists and turns along the way.

 

They can do, but then you've got explain away why he lost to Salido if he was for all intents and purposes an established pro. I'd prefer to go with the line that he was fresh to the pro ranks, and the same would happen to every fighter in history if they fought for a title in their second pro fight.

I think it's a slippery slope if we start looking too deep into fights outside the (recognised) pro ranks.

The HOF is flawed in execution, but it's a tangible that is in some way measurable. Often terms like "elite", "ATG" or whatever are thrown around without any clear definition.

There's essentially two different paths to greatness. The Sugar Ray Leonard method involves beating ATGs in career defining fights in a short space of time. Most fighters (Loma included) don't have the luxury of having those types of fights available to them. If he keeps on winning in style though, beats the likes of Tank and Garcia, wins titles well outside his natural weight division, etc, he will have an exceptional resume.