Look let's be realistic here. Wlad/Vitali/Lewis would dominate any era of HW boxing

ali tko 6 wlad. ali tko 6 vitali.

 

Even you Glover, can see that he's taking the ****ING **** now.

He's copied the SAME ****ING TEXT, ABOUT 20 TIMES!

We're not going to get any new members posting on this thread when they see his ****.

They can't see what anyone else has wrote.

 

I'll happily debate with you, even though I know you're baiting me. Ha! But it's all good fun.

Do me a favour, just let me go back and reply to your older posts, before you reply to my most recent one's, otherwise I'm going to be swamped.

I'll also reply to you on the other thread too, when I have the time. :good

 

glover,

That's YOUR OPINION, and you're entitled to it. But styles make fights. That will never change. You've made an exception for a 5'10 Tyson overcoming physical disadvantages, but you won't do it for someone like Ali. The odds you have given is just your opinion. My whole argument with you, is against your overall generalisation. You're saying "Today's guys are much bigger, and NO HW of the past would be able to even COMPETE with them, let alone beat them." Then when I give you examples, you then say "Well, that's just a single example." So you are wrong. A lot of today's HW's would beat a lot of HW's of the past, but you can't say that they would beat ALL of them. That's absurd.

It isn't the correct thing to do. There'll always be exceptions. Look, if you'd have said "In my opinion, the majority of today's guys would have easily have beaten the heavies of the past, probably with ease." I'd have said "fair enough." But you are saying that NO HW of the past could win today, or even be COMPETETIVE. So you've grossly over exaggerated your opinion. You know that you are wrong. If Tyson could potentially have been the greatest HW of all time at 5'10, then that PROVES that physical disadvantages can be overcome by all-around ability.

I respect your opinion. I think Frazier would beat all of those, with his style. Fury's just been dropped by Cunningham, trust me he'll go against a bigger hitter. I think Frazier would have gone to the body. Are you going to tell me that Ali wouldn't have been able to beat Fury? I know you like a laugh, and it's all good fun, but be serious for a second. I've got a great sense of humour, but nobody is telling me that Fury would beat Ali, because he's bigger. You would be taking things too far if you said that.

Fair enough, Big George wasn't very skilled. I was talking about boxing has a whole not just the HW's like you are. In my opinion, skills have digressed as a whole. I think that boxers of the past, across all weight classes were more skilled as a whole. I think Ali's skills would have overcome any of today's guys.

Ha! Ali was 6'3 and fought at around 220-230 pounds.

We both know that physical disadvantages can be overcome by other attributes.

 

:good

 

Glover,

My computer keeps shutting down every now and again. I need a new graphics card or something.

So, I'm going to post all of your quotes up, without any answers, and then fill them in asap.

So if you see a load of quotes, but with no answers, don't worry.

I'll keep editing my post and will eventually answer all of your points. If I don't do it this way, I'll lose all of my text if my machine goes down in the middle of my reply.

Just leave it with me, thanks.

 

glover,

Ha! Running around like a turkey? How can slipping and timing have been improved by modern methods? Slipping, timing, feinting, making a guy miss, getting in and out of range etc, is all footwork.

There's been plenty of pure boxers and defensive masters of the past.

Wlad isn't as skilled as Ali was. In a head to head breakdown of skills and attributes, Ali would easily come out on top. We can do a thread and ask other members if you wish?

His footwork would have stopped him getting knocked out. Wlad couldn't knock Haye out. Ali was much faster with superior footwork to Haye, and had better reflexes. A 67 version of Ali at 25, would be very hard to hit clean. Today's HW's have never seen a guy as fast and as skilled as Ali? I'd love to have seen Tyson Fury etc deal with Ali's footwork. Again you keep referring to a 60's Clay. I'm not talking about a young 60's Clay, I'm talking about a 25 year old Ali.

Right. And Ali was more skilled, and had faster hand speed and superior footwork to the guys mentioned in this thread. Ali's total overall package could have overcome physical disadvantages.

I'm not talking about little Clay when he was young. I'm talking about a 25 year old MAN. Also Clay didn't have a suspect chin. Henry caught him, and he got straight back up. Frazier caught him with a beautiful shot, and he got up straight away. He had a good chin. Anybody will go if they caught with a good one. Ali received a lot of punishment in the 70's, because he no longer had the footwork to get out of range. He didn't take any real punishment in the 60's. He got tagged a few times, and some competitive fights. But he never got hammered. He was never the same after the ban, and he had to employ different tactics. What do you mean if he'd have cared more? It was a different world back then. He fought scheduled 15 rounders once a month at one point.

Holmes did what?

Why did the first 2 rounds convince you of that? Big George couldn't get near him in the 1st round. By the 2nd, Ali had already started to back himself onto the ropes and was getting hit. But if Ali could have sustained fighting like the 1st round, for the full 15, then what makes you think that George would have knocked him out?

It wasn't incredibly lucky.

There you go. When he was outweighed, he was more skilled and faster etc. So his all-around ability could overcome weight disadvantages. By the way, do you think a motivated Rooney trained Tyson fighting to his full capabilities would have beaten the best version of Lewis? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. I think Mike would have beaten him.

Not ALL of them. He dominated guys but didn't always knock them out. Tucker was a decent heavy.

Fair enough.

They both had great and very different attributes. But you are making exceptions for Tyson overcoming physical disadvantages, but won't allow the same for Ali.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think that's a joke.

Ha! Ok, fair enough.

 

These clowns harping on about modern this and modern that probably believe Alex Azira , Vic Conte can do more for boxers than Angelo Dundee or Eddie Fuch.

Old school boxing secerts and training is a lost art.

The best conditioned fighter of all time last laced them up 50 years ago. Marciano was able to fight at an an unstoppable pace thu to 15 rounds and still have energy left over. There is nobody around today who can match Rock on workrate.

Modern guys are gassing out after 5 rounds.

The last big HW fight in 2002 saw two oafs burnt out ,falling around the ring after only 4 rounds.

 

glover,

Yes but he's been knocked out three times against non elite competition and Peter nearly had him out. Also, this is not a strong division.

They still all happened. None of those three guys were elite, and neither is Peter, despite being a hard puncher.

Clay got decked, and then got straight back up.

We're discussing a 25 year old version of Ali.

Ha!

Footwork is probably the best asset of all to a pro boxer. Everything comes from the feet. You can have all the power in the world, but it's no good if you can't land etc. Ali never ran. He made his opponents miss, and he kept them off balance. Look at the first round of "The Jungle" The whole purpose of footwork, is to make your opponent miss, and then try and counter. Boxing is hit and don't get hit. A pure boxer relies on his footwork more than anything else.

Peter isn't fit, fast, or particularly skilled. I wouldn't call him a great fighter, and Wlad had more than his hands full.

 

It's easy to win when all you do is fight the Ray Austins of the world.

Again I ask, exactly WHO has Klitschko ever beaten?

 

no. the klits and lewis wouldn't have survived the 70's, 80's or 90's.

when you lose by ko/stoppage to guys like mccall, rahman, byrd, purity, sanders and brewster...

you don't really stand a chance against the greats from the 70's thru the 90's.

 

Lewis? Yes.

The Klits? No. Monstrous contenders who are always at the top level, but I think in a competitive era Vitali is overcome by injuries and Wlad has his chin cracked and confidence broken.

 

Deal moron.

 

Da professor! I'm not surprised to see you know a thing or two about being totally brain dead. This falls under #1 of common responses, please see main thread I'll post shortly.