I'm not interested in the exact rankings, especially since it becomes peculiar beyond the top15 in ranking individual numbers, so i'm only gonna go by decades (numbers of 10, not talking about years) in the rankings, i.e.: 1-10: (again, no order, for all of them) Ali Louis Lewis Marciano Holmes Frazier Foreman Holyfield Tyson Dempsey 11-20: Walcott Patterson Banana Sam .. etc etc Note: 1. Only fighters who fought between 1900 and 1999 are allowed. However, when a fighter spent part of his career outside of this time, i.e. in the 2000's or during the 1800's, the accomplishments during that time are to be taken into account. Why this seemingly inconsistent rule? Because all other fighters are judged on their entire career, so it would be unfair to judge those on the edge on a few fights on their end/start of their careers. Boxers post-2000 are excluded because many haven't finished their careers yet, and it is a general rule of human psychology that a boxer's standing will rise several years after they retired. So, for a fair measurement, they're left out. Pre-1900 is excluded because documentation on them (complete records, film) does not compare to those of the 20th century, and the rules of boxing were much different back then from what it was during most of the 20th century. 2. I'm looking for a general consensus here where many will disagree, so if you think one fighter should be top80 instead of top90, don't bother. The difference between top20 and top30 is obviously larger, but from there on things are becoming hard to separate. Top80 is only a bit lower than top60, even if there's 20 fighters between them. 3. Currently active fighters who spent part of their career in the 90's are excluded, unless it's clear they're not going to accomplish anything anymore. So, for instance, Tua will be judged on his entire career despite part of that being in the 2000's. Officially he is still active, but it's not likely he'll achieve anything big in the future, so he's allowed to be on. The same goes for Holyfield and Ruiz. Jeffries had quite some fights before the 1900's and they are included because he was active as a champ in the 1900's. The Klitschko's however, were active in the 90's but are still active today and hence are not included. Corbett is excluded because he fought almost exclusively in the 1800's. 4. Comments on who you like higher, lower, or who is missing on the list are more than welcome, but please state at the cost of which fighter this goes, i.e. which boxer drops down 10 spots, 20 spots or whatever to make room for the new one? I came up with the following top100 off the top of my head. It is a start and i probably left a few names off and have some unfair rankings. Here is the list as it is now. 1-10 Muhammad Ali Larry Holmes Evander Holyfield Joe Louis Joe Frazier George Foreman Lennox Lewis Mike Tyson Rocky Marciano Jack Dempsey 11-20 Riddick Bowe James Jeffries Sonny Liston Jack Johnson Harry Wills Ezzard Charles Jersey Joe Walcott Sam Langford Bob Fitzsimmons Ingemar Johansson 21-30 Gene Tunney Floyd Patterson Max Schmeling Tim Witherspoon Ken Norton Jerry Quarry Jimmy Young Chris Byrd Joe Jeannette David Tua 31-40 Max Baer Oliver McCall Sam Mcvey Jimmy Ellis Pinklon Thomas Hasim Rahman Archie Moore Tom Sharkey Primo Carnera Ike Ibeabuchi 41-50 Michael Spinks John Ruiz Jack Sharkey Buster Douglas Ron Lyle Donovan Ruddock Ray Mercer Frank Bruno Eddie Machen Bob Baker 51-60 Michael Moorer Michael Dokes Corrie Sanders Jerry Cooney Cleveland Williams Tommy Morrison Tommy Loughran George Godfrey Arthuro Godoy Clarence Henry 61-70 Tony Tucker Zora Folley Billy Miske Lee Murray Bob Pastor Oleg Maskaev Elmer Ray Marvin Hart Jimmy Bivins Rex Layne 71-80 Tony Tubbs Trevor Berbick Tommy Gibbons Ernie Shavers Larry Gains Mike Weaver Fred Fulton Jess Willard Turkey Thompson Ernie Terrel 81-89 Larry Donald Greg Page Gerrie Coetzee Luis Firpo Shannon Briggs Buddy Baer Paulino Uzcudun Harry Matthews Roland LaStarza Mike DeJohn 90-99 James Smith Bob Satterfield Gus Ruhlin Leroy Haynes Nino Valdes Joe Bugner Abe Simon Tommy Burns Henry Akinwande Gerrie Coetzee When the list has evolved to a consensus top100 according to most ESB'ers, i'll analyze the data and use it for a few new threads to come.
I don´t do lists anymore but I highlight the hws I consider as atgs and so should be above the rest.
I tried doing a top100 then I got banned from ESB, then I decided I'd changed my listings 1-10 Muhammad Ali - YEP Larry Holmes - Shouldnt be top 5 Evander Holyfield - Lower top 10 or lower still Joe Louis - top3 Joe Frazier - Lower top 10 or lower still George Foreman - not top 10 Lennox Lewis - top 3 Mike Tyson - about right Rocky Marciano - higher, dominated his era Jack Dempsey - MUCH LOWER, not top10, and shouldn't have more than a hairs breadth from Wills 11-20 Riddick Bowe - Lower top 20 or lower still James Jeffries - old and small men and no black title defenses, LOWER Sonny Liston - UP a bit Jack Johnson - TOP 10, maybe top5 Harry Wills - around 12 Ezzard Charles - above Bowe/Jeffries Jersey Joe Walcott - above Bowe/Jeffries Sam Langford - about right Bob Fitzsimmons - Your pushing the 'not before 1900s' a bit hard with him Ingemar Johansson - lower 21-30 Gene Tunney - about right Floyd Patterson - about right Max Schmeling - above Johansson Tim Witherspoon - lower Ken Norton - higher Jerry Quarry - Jimmy Young - difficult to rank Chris Byrd - NOT pre-2000 Joe Jeannette David Tua 31-40 Max Baer Oliver McCall - people will argue BUT beat 5 champs in Lennox, Holmes, Maskeev, Seldon, Akiwande Sam Mcvey Jimmy Ellis Pinklon Thomas Hasim Rahman Archie Moore - MUCH HIGHER - Top 30 spot Tom Sharkey Primo Carnera Ike Ibeabuchi - lower than Byrd who he splatered in 5? 41-50 Michael Spinks - did as much or more than Tunney as a HW for my money John Ruiz - pre 2000? Yet no Vitali who held a belt pre-2000. Jack Sharkey Buster Douglas - Beat Tyson, a better Tyson than Tunney's Dempsey - could be top30 Ron Lyle Donovan Ruddock Ray Mercer Frank Bruno Eddie Machen Bob Baker 51-60 Michael Moorer - again his Holyfield win is on par with Tunney's Dempsey win Michael Dokes Corrie Sanders - whats his second best win? And where's Rahman his conquerer? Jerry Cooney - any relation to Gerry? Cleveland Williams Tommy Morrison Tommy Loughran George Godfrey - ALLOT HIGHER Arthuro Godoy Clarence Henry 61-70 Tony Tucker Zora Folley Billy Miske Lee Murray Bob Pastor Oleg Maskaev - other than Rahman... Elmer Ray - could be 20-35 spots higher Marvin Hart Jimmy Bivins - could be 20-35 spots higher Rex Layne 71-80 Tony Tubbs Trevor Berbick Tommy Gibbons Ernie Shavers Larry Gains Mike Weaver Fred Fulton Jess Willard - a bit harsh Turkey Thompson Ernie Terrel 81-89 Larry Donald Greg Page Gerrie Coetzee Luis Firpo Shannon Briggs Buddy Baer Paulino Uzcudun Harry Matthews Roland LaStarza - THE ONLY MAN TO ARGUABLY BEAT MARCIANO IS ONLY 88? Mike DeJohn 90-99 James Smith Bob Satterfield Gus Ruhlin Leroy Haynes Nino Valdes Joe Bugner Abe Simon Tommy Burns Henry Akinwande Gerrie Coetzee
You missed off Golota, no he doesnt have a massive win but he retired Bowe after beating on him twice and deserved the nod over Byrd and Ruiz
Also: Jimmy Braddock Conn Young Stribling Harry Greb Rahman You may consider: Bonavena Fireman Jim Flynn - beat Dempsey, fought Jack Johnson and fought Langford to a draw, a journeyman though
This is quite a daunting task considering no one can even agree on a consensus number one! I'll try to submit an ordered list later, once I've consolidated the latter portion.
Thanks for the comments PowerPuncher. I'll think about your suggestions. You did miss a few comments i made before presenting the list though. For instance, the list has a "resolution" of 10 ranks, i.e. there is no distinction between #1 and #9, #13 or #17, etc etc. You don't have to produce your own list (though be my guest), i was just looking for comments on the one posted.
1-10 Muhammad Ali Larry Holmes Evander Holyfield (just outside) Joe Louis Joe Frazier George Foreman Lennox Lewis Mike Tyson Rocky Marciano Jack Dempsey (just outside) 11-20 Riddick Bowe James Jeffries Sonny Liston (should be well within the top ten in my opinion but it depends on criteria) Jack Johnson (rounds out my top ten) Harry Wills Ezzard Charles (I don't rate career light heavyweights but Charles would also fall under this tier if he were included in my list) Jersey Joe Walcott Sam Langford (maybe a little bit lower) Bob Fitzsimmons (a light heavyweight I honestly don't know where to place him) Ingemar Johansson (doesn't belong in the top twenty even though he's a top twenty five talent the difference is distinct) 21-30 Gene Tunney (I don't count him but you've got him pegged fine) Floyd Patterson Max Schmeling Tim Witherspoon (too inconsistent to be put this high) Ken Norton Jerry Quarry Jimmy Young (inside forty but not inside thirty) Chris Byrd (too high for me) Joe Jeannette David Tua (an incredible talent he should rank higher than Byrd in my opinion but this is perhaps a tad too high) 31-40 Max Baer Oliver McCall Sam Mcvey (slightly too low but I can't really tell for sure since this is not ordered I feel he should be rated near Quarry and Jeannette) Jimmy Ellis (have him at 42) Pinklon Thomas (quite a bit overrated) Hasim Rahman (to have him securely placed within the top fifty is a gross misunderstanding of his talents in my humble opinion) Archie Moore Tom Sharkey Primo Carnera Ike Ibeabuchi (shouldn't be below Chris Byrd you could place him under Tua though even though I personally don't have it that way) 41-50 Michael Spinks John Ruiz (too high) Jack Sharkey Buster Douglas Ron Lyle Donovan Ruddock Ray Mercer Frank Bruno Eddie Machen (too low) Bob Baker (wouldn't rate him over Clarence Henry) 51-60 Michael Moorer Michael Dokes Corrie Sanders Jerry Cooney Cleveland Williams Tommy Morrison Tommy Loughran George Godfrey (mid-40's) Arthuro Godoy Clarence Henry 61-70 Tony Tucker (too low) Zora Folley (too low) Billy Miske Lee Murray Bob Pastor Oleg Maskaev Elmer Ray (too low) Marvin Hart Jimmy Bivins (too low) Rex Layne 71-80 Tony Tubbs Trevor Berbick Tommy Gibbons Ernie Shavers Larry Gains Mike Weaver Fred Fulton Jess Willard Turkey Thompson Ernie Terrel 81-89 Larry Donald Greg Page Gerrie Coetzee Luis Firpo Shannon Briggs Buddy Baer Paulino Uzcudun Harry Matthews Roland LaStarza Mike DeJohn 90-99 James Smith Bob Satterfield Gus Ruhlin Leroy Haynes Nino Valdes Joe Bugner Abe Simon Tommy Burns Henry Akinwande Gerrie Coetzee This is a reasonably decent list. Perhaps I was overly critical, knowing practically next to nothing of the order you put them in. I'm pretty sure you were drastically mistaken in your ranking of Byrd, Rahman, Machen, Folley, Ray, and Bivins, however. But I can only extend my opinion and hope you take it as constructive criticism. Most of all, I would like to see you put this thing in order from 1-100 as I'm certain it would also help me form my own opinions regarding the subject.