Losses you really just don't take into count at all?

I know I'll get resistance to this, but I'm betting you yourself could see Foreman dominated that fight, and that the punches he landed had way more effect overall than what Briggs landed.

 

No, Briggs was winded because he’s Briggs.

Foreman was the ring general and jabber. Briggs landed the power shots and rocked Foreman on different occasions.

 

I think I see what you mean. Depends on what the scorer prefers.

At the same time, Foreman broke Briggs' nose, which I'd have to say counts as especially effective.

 

All of them in terms of greatness.

None of them in terms of head-to-head, just to differing degrees.

 

I like the premise - there are bad decisions and robberies as we might personally see them - that’s one thing - but we might also mentally blot out the loss altogether - always thinking and talking AS IF it didn’t happen, such is our contempt for the “official” call -

In that frame, I’d include (Foremn v Briggs, agree with OP), Ali-Norton III, Fenech-Nelson 1, Hearns - Leonard II (a draw but same diff.) and in the amateurs, Jones’ loss to Park-Si-Hun at the 88 Seoul Games.

Then there are those fights when the fighter was beyond viability, beyond practical measure - of course Ali v Holmes/Bebick, then - Fenech’s losses post Nelson II, Funny, if Holmes retired after Tyson in 88, I might’ve put Larry on the cusp for dismissal of the loss - but then a better prepared, more active Holmes went on to do what he did - sorry Larry,, it’s your own fault for looking pretty damn good after the fact of the loss to Tyson…

 

@ Tug - Love the style whilst remaining perfectly true to the most reliable written sources available. There was the suggestion also that they used leeches to get the swell up on Tom’s sack when they finally did allow for more “objective” viewing.

Def. a loss/DQ that one doesn’t account for - in fact, it was a devastating KO win for Bob, a legit 1 of 2 that Fitz held over The Sailor. Amazing to think what Bob did to Tom twice over 2 fights (about 10 rounds total?) Jeffries couldn’t do over 45 rounds of - you punch me and the I’ll punch you - LOL.

 

Pretty much all "way past prime" losses. Ex. the late career losses of Ezzard Charles, such as pretty much everything after the Marciano fights.

 

Duran-Camacho, Leonard-Norris,

 

I await the redaction from @NoNeck (no offense, my friend).

I really don't count the Tyson ko of Holmes as much. Mike was h2h a top three ATG at the time, while Holmes was 38, had been out of the ring for 20 months, just turned grandpa, and was five years past his prime.

The Holmes who came back, beat Mercer and gave a great effort against Holy had had plenty of preliminary bouts. Plus, I don't think anyone counts Mercer as prime Mike level...even Holy, who was probably a greater ATG overall, wasn't the h2h MONSTER 1988 Mike Tyson was. No way,

 

I think it’s debatable whether Holy was superior H2H than Tyson. Most think holy beats any version of Tyson but Tyson shows up far more frequently in H2H lists IMO.

 

I love Holy! But I have a bad feeling he'd turn on Warrior mode against prime MIke (as well as Liston and Foreman,,,the latter two would be an even bigger no-no for him). I think he'd become more cautious due to age and experience when he fought Mike. A younger Holy might not get stopped, but I see him getting obviously beaten ala Bowe I.

 

We mustn’t let personal biases cloud our judgements.

In order to prevent this, we must look at similar scenarios to determine if our judgement is cloudy.

For example, a green fighter has never had over forty wins and been a unified champion. Canelo was not green when he fought Mayweather.

Similarly, I am unaware of 38 year old fighters who were more serviceable in their forties. Larry was not likely any better when he fought Mercer compared to Tyson.

 

Perhaps not better...but when he fought Mercer he didn't have a foot deep of ring rust on him.

 

Larry got knocked out by Tyson immediately after getting comfortable and finding his confidence @end of 3rd/start of 4th.

 

I consider losses well past a fighter's prime somewhat, for certain reasons. Even Muhammad Ali's loss to Holmes: Although it tells us nothing about Ali's offensive abilities, it's another certification for his heart and ability to withstand punishment without giving in. That man could SURELY take a punch! His heart and whiskers were First Class!