Lou Ambers on a pound-for-pound list

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Manassa, Sep 13, 2010.


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  1. Manassa

    Manassa - banned

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    A fighter seriously in need of recognition here.

    By rights, he should be above Marvin Hagler. How many would rate him so? The first man in every ten, if that, and I really don't think that's right.

    Of course, Henry Armstrong's win(s) over Lou Ambers is one of the main factors in his greatness. Ambers was Armstrong's Kid Gavilan.
     
    Manassa, Sep 13, 2010
    Manassa, Sep 13, 2010
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  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I have never really gotten a handle on Ambers ,and must confess I don't know where to rank him. Ambers is overlooked and that should be redressed ,where to put him in lists?
    Maybe this thread will stir up some interest and enable people like me to get a more detailed appreciation of him?
     
    mcvey, Sep 13, 2010
    mcvey, Sep 13, 2010
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  3. Manassa

    Manassa - banned

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    His record is very, very good for the era. It's something I first noticed when researching Henry Armstrong four or five years ago and I've delved into it a bit further since... And looking at Ambers' record you can uncover all kinds of contenders and champions and Hall of Famers that he holds wins over. Ambers beat Cocoa Kid, Fritzie Zivic, Tony Canzoneri, Pedro Montanez, Baby Arizmendi and whole list of contenders; Al Davis, Jimmy Leto, Sammy Fuller, Frankie Klick, Davey Day, Paul Junior, Steve Halaiko and many more.

    Ambers, being a genuine great himself, also aids in the standing of Armstrong and also Jimmy McLarnin, who actually managed to beat a prime Ambers in his last career bout.
     
    Manassa, Sep 13, 2010
    Manassa, Sep 13, 2010
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  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I think the win over Armstrong is tainted by controversy over the amount of rounds Donovan deducted for low blows.
    An impressive win is a stoppage over Arizmendi he was very durable ,and Ambers was not really a hitter.
    Ambers was a sparring partner for Canzoneri but, as his time came, Canzi's was waning , Canzoneri won their first fight without argument ,but a year later Ambers emphatically decisioned him.
    Lew Jenkins dropping Ambers multiple times ,and stopping him twice, shows how hard Jenkins punched.
     
    mcvey, Sep 13, 2010
    mcvey, Sep 13, 2010
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  5. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ambers one of the greatest lws ever that´s for sure.
     
    bodhi, Sep 13, 2010
    bodhi, Sep 13, 2010
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  6. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    I always tend to think of him as 'second tier' but that could be due to lack of research/knowledge.
     
    GPater11093, Sep 13, 2010
    GPater11093, Sep 13, 2010
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  7. Manassa

    Manassa - banned

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    Could you rate Ambers over Hagler and be happy about it?
     
    Manassa, Sep 13, 2010
    Manassa, Sep 13, 2010
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  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I couldn't ,Hagler is at least top 4 at 160.Lightweight is a very strong division ,but I don't have Ambers in my ten ,maybe the fault is mine.
     
    mcvey, Sep 13, 2010
    mcvey, Sep 13, 2010
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  9. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No. Undeniably a great fighter as he was.
     
    El Bujia, Sep 13, 2010
    El Bujia, Sep 13, 2010
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  10. Manassa

    Manassa - banned

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    See, I just think the lightweight division has always been deeper in talent than the middleweight division. The #15 lightweight would be greater than the #15 middleweight, for instance.
     
    Manassa, Sep 13, 2010
    Manassa, Sep 13, 2010
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  11. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Agreed, but a 10-15 Lightweight wouldn't be greater than a top 5 Middleweight.
     
    El Bujia, Sep 13, 2010
    El Bujia, Sep 13, 2010
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  12. Manassa

    Manassa - banned

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    On principal alone it sounds wrong, but it may be right. Hagler, for me, could have gone 80-10-3 in another era but beaten thrice the level of competition he did in his actual career and sealed an ever greater legacy.

    I personally wouldn't rate Hagler below Ambers (despite generally weaker opposition, he did dominate) but it's something to think about.
     
    Manassa, Sep 13, 2010
    Manassa, Sep 13, 2010
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  13. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ambers has to rate below the ethnic trinity of the 30s -Ross, McLarnin, and Canzoneri, but not by much. The "second tier" there is better than almost any other era anywhere.

    A note on that first fight against Armstrong -he was easily the toughest title holder Armstrong faced at his peak. Easily. And Armstrong himself knew it. He was almost in shock in the dressing room after swallowing about a pint of his own blood and in the rematch, he closed Armstrong's eyes. He was one of those guys who absolutely loved to fight. And that made him greater than he otherwise would have been, that passion.

    Over Hagler? I got Hagler at 23 all-time in a rough draft ranking. Ambers wouldn't be far behind.
     
    Stonehands89, Sep 13, 2010
    Stonehands89, Sep 13, 2010
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  14. Manassa

    Manassa - banned

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    I have to question the high rating of Hagler.

    Most people seem to rate him around that area, but I don't think it's just. Is Hagler greater than Napoles? C. Ortiz? Olivares?
     
    Manassa, Sep 13, 2010
    Manassa, Sep 13, 2010
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  15. anarci

    anarci Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    i DONT HAVE A SET LIST BUT IF I WERE TO MAKE A WILD ESTIMATION ID SAY TOP 75 atg.
     
    anarci, Sep 13, 2010
    anarci, Sep 13, 2010
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