Louis Above Ali - Convince Me

I agree that Alis resume is amazing, i have Ali at #1 and Louis at #2

However there are certain things where Louis was better. Louis could adopt well in rematches. In fairness to Ali, Frazier was always going to be a tough match for him(and Frazier is better then anyone Louis ever beat), however ali could never truly figure out Norton. Louis was certainly better when it came to adapting for rematches. Plus Louis had better fundementals, blocking, etc. and an argument can be made that Ali had more disputed decisions.

 

I have to say I'm also courious. I don't like rating Ali #1 but I do, have to admit that he fully deserves the spot. But I may change my opinion...

 

in the early part of 1980s, people still rank louis is the top HW ever

 

If we're looking at records, Louis title reign is really what sets him apart. 26-1 in title fights is a truly tremendous feat. But Ali's 25-3 isn't too shabby either. Probably the second best in boxing history.

 

???????

 

i mean 80s...sorry

 

I'll give it a bash...

Without Joe Louis, there may never have been a Muhammad Ali.
He carried an entire race's hopes and dreams on his shoulder for more than two decades. His ability with his fists and his quiet, dignified demeanour opened up a lot of doors, not only for black boxers, but for black athletes in general. Save for a brief period when Jesse Owens beat all comers at the Olympics, there was no athlete (and perhaps no living being at the time) that was more adored by black people than Joe Louis.

Had he been another Jack Johnson (in terms of personality) that little kid in Louisville may never have had the chance to become champion.

One may argue that this has nothing to do with actual boxing ability and that's true, but I for one cannot simply seperate Louis the boxer from Louis the man any more than I can any other fighter.
For me, part of what makes a boxer great is what he came to represent not only in boxing circles, but in the wider circles of life. His legacy in the ring and out of it cannot be seperated, in my opinion.
Joe Louis was for his people, every bit as much a symbol of hope and strength as Muhammad Ali was during his time, and possibly more so.

Sadly much of this had been forgotten not only because of the passage of time, but because Joe was a quiet guy outside the ring. Boring even. Ali had the brash, vibrant personality that made for great soundbites and interviews, and that's what TV producers were and are after.

But let's not kid ourselves by thinking that Joe won people over by being quiet and respectful only. He won them over by knocking out people in devastating fashion. His rise to the top was meteoric, and he was lauded as the next champion long before he made it official.
It took roughly 50 years before someone would again make such amazing progress in such a short span of time.(Tyson)
Max Schmeling obviously threw a spanner in the works on his way to the top, but Joe avenged that loss with as dominating a performance that has ever been seen in registering a first round knockout.

The thing with Louis was that he was so good, he made eveyrone else look ordinary. Now and then someone would put up a sterner fight than expected (like Tommy Farr, for instance) or even knock the champ down (Galento comes to mind) but these were minor inconveniences for a man who was, for nearly the entire duration of his stay as champion, simply head and shoulders above everyone else he fought.
He fought all types; Big guys, small guys, left hookers, strong right-handed punchers. Boxers, brawlers, spoilers...you name it. It didn't matter in the end, though. He beat everyone, usually emphatically.

As a puncher, Louis has few rivals. Sure some may have carried more one-punch power, but nobody put together combinations like Louis. The triple left hook with which he dispatched the iron-jawed Baer, for the only stoppage loss of Baer's career, was and is a thing of beauty. The last salvo of punches that finally put paid to Billy Conn's noble effort was as clinical as any surgeon's knife.

Louis had almost uncanny accuracy. If any young guy wants to take up boxing, one of the first things he should do is watch old Louis fight films. Perfect, textbook punching and accuracy was what Louis was all about.
Nothing was a wasted effort.
Even as an old man Louis threw nothing that wasn't worth throwing.
No matter how desperate things became, he never forgot that methodical, precise punching. It paid dividends in spades.

It's funny, but in this day and age where everything is supposed to be so much better than in the past, where athletes are supposedly evolving and breaking new ground, I am still waiting for a modern equivalent of the Brown Bomber as a, as McGrain would say, composite puncher.
There simply hasn't been one. There might never be one again.

Equally unique among heavyweights was his ability to fight at long, medium or short range. Most are proficient in one range. Some are pretty handy in two ranges, but how many could with credibility claim as Louis can, that he is good at all three?
Joe could knock you cold with a long right cross or with a short, jolting left uppercut inside, or anything in between.

As a finisher, few could rival him. Once he smelled blood, it was a matter of time before he'd turn out the lights. You can run but you can't hide. Nobody made those words ring more true than Louis.

An aspect that is sometimes overlooked with Louis is his calmness. Nothing ever seemed to faze him. If he ever was nervous before a fight, he must have been an actor of Oscar winning proportions because he always looked as cool as a cucumber.
Few things in life could be more daunting for a man than looking into Louis' face before a fight and seeing a man who looked utterly unflustered, completely unafraid.
Louis was a stone cold assassin.
There were no theatrics from Louis. He didn't boast about his knockouts or what he would do to his next opponent. No name calling or anything like that.

He would shuffle after you, waiting patiently for a small mistake, a slight lapse in concentration. An opening.
Oh, you might look could for a while. Maybe win a few rounds, even. Score with a few nice shots.
Next thing, you're coming round in the dressing room not knowing what the hell hit you.
All in a day's work for Louis.

Louis was never known as an intellectual, but he never forgot a lesson. In rematches Joe was absolute hell. He never lost one, and always improved on his performance the second time around. In fact, no opponent he was ever rematched with ever lasted the distance. Even the difficult and elusive Joe Walcott, the man who probably gave Louis a harder time than anyone, was chopped back down to size.

Louis had other qualities that made him the best heavyweight of his generation, but those above for me best demonstrate why, in my mind, Louis is unequalled.

 

A noble effort but a losing one.
Louis did not "fight all types",he never fought a South paw,unlike Ali[Mildenberger].
Several of Louis' defences were over guys with underwhelming records.
Baer was stopped three times, once by Louis twice by Nova.
Head to head, I have Joe at no 4.Not 1 or 2.

 

For me Ali is number one, the man's resume is absolutely sparkling. The best heavyweight of two outstanding eras, beat Sonny Liston and made him look very poor, beat Frazier and stopped Foreman in his prime. People like to talk about his technical defficiencies, but when you look at the level of his effectiveness, well.

If anyone is close it would be Joe Louis, but does not cut it for me, wins over Schmeling, Baer, Sharkey, Walcott and even Carnera and Farr are great or good for his standing, and quite simply a massive candidate for the best finisher ever regardless of weight class.

Ali for me, i like Louis more i must say, but that has no bearing on my pick here.

 

Thanks for the correction on Baer. I figured it would be not all that hard to write something, but then I sat for 10 minutes staring blankly into space. I had to give it a shot though...

I'll say this: the guys Ali beat, Louis would too. I honestly believe that. (Okay, that does work both ways, to be fair.)

 

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I think Walcott would have given Ali major problems
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,Ps I think your post was fine:good

 

I agree with you about Walcott, and thanks for the compliment.

 

I knew Walcott and he stated many times that Ali was the best Heavyweight he ever saw.