Louis and Ali are the top two heavyweights, who else could have been?

Kinda of hard to do when you get drafted into WWII. One of the reasons for Marciano's late start.

 

Yeah, but I thought this was supposed to be hypothetical exercise. I wrote what I thought he could have achieved if the war hadn't come in the way.

At 24-25 he should be ripe to take the title from an aging Louis (if someone else haven't already taken it), and from there I can see him being consistent enough to rake up some 15 defences before retiring undefeated. That would be some career.

 

I use to think that Holmes, whom I rate #4 all time, couldn't really have done much to improve his all time status. After further thought, I am mistaken. Had Holmes defeated Thomas, Tubbs, and Dokes on his way to 48-0; I'd be hard pressed to come up with a reason for why he couldn't be argued for the top spot. I would still favor Ali, but I wouldn't be as sure.

Lewis' timing for big fights, and a missed opportunity, are what kept him away from the top spot. I'm not saying I would pick Lewis to win all of the following fights, but let's just assume he does for the sake of this thread. Had Lewis defeated Bowe before 1996, defeated Mike Tyson after Tyson defeated Bruno the 2nd time, fought Byrd, W. Klit, and Moorer; he could more than argue for the top spot. I currently have him at 5. I would have mentioned Holyfield, but that win would not mean as much had Lewis defeated Tyson before Holyfield got a chance.

 

The key to this question is whether we are after a top 2 place or a consensus top 2 place. Consensus means virtually everybody. This means that anyone before Dempsey will have no hope because the rules meant the good fighters were so small. Marciano could have done nothing else with his career. He never lost a fight! the only reason he is not a consensus top 2 is because he was small. Nothing could change this. Lewis and Tyson could have been consensus but for his KO losses. Tyson probably had the best chance, but he needed to retire or get arrested just prior to the Douglas loss. When he came back, he would have still needed to beat Holyfield, Bowe and Lewis who would have had big names by then. If he did this, his career would have been very similar to Alis, although Foreman would be the common link. Now i think of it i think he would have needed to knock out Old foreman also. Not very realistic that he could win all these fights. Actually, probably his best bet would have been to retire just before the Douglas fight, i think that he would be a consensus top 2 if he did this.

Lewis obviously was a chance, but he needed to win the McCall and Rahman fights. Bowe also would have helped, but i think he could have even got away with beating a shot Bowe.

Holmes is probably the best chance. He could have easily retired before the Spinks fight (or just beat him), and then launch his 2nd comeback (perhaps ducking Tyson) and i think he would have gone quite close.

Without the need for a consensus, there are several guys who actually do have a good claim to the top 2 spot. Marciano could have done nothing else. He Never lost a fight, and fought every fight that was there to be taken. Unlike Louis, he was was never knocked out cold in his prime and unlike Ali, he could always find the knockout when he needed it most. It is all opinion but Marciano can be legitimately ranked above Ali and Louis.

Sullivan is another who was never beaten in his prime. His power was as good or better than anyone. He also showed more heart and will to win against all odds, when past his best than any other champion. He also has a fair claim.

Jeffries was also undefeated. And never knocked off his feet in his prime. His only loss was to an all time great who was far younger and was under circumstances, that no other fighter would have looked like winning in. Certainly his condition was far more removed from his prime than the condition of Joe Louis when he was knocked out cold by Rocky (another ATG) or possibly even Ali, when he was stopped by Holmes. Jeffries also has a very legitimate claim.

Johnson is another with a great claim. He has a winning record against every major contender he faced during his time as a great fighter. His only loss of any consequence is Choynski and as bad as this is, Louis was also knocked cold and closer to his prime than Johnson was. Johnson also could be conceivably considered a top 2 fighter.

 

Jack Johnson and Mike Tyson