Louis and Frazier fight 10 times. How often does Joe bomb him out like Foreman?

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I realy doubt it. Joe was more patient then Foreman. If u read about or watch the second Louis-Godoy fight, that was how Louis fought a crouching iron chinned fighter. I dont think Louis could finish off Frazier within the first three rounds

 

If these two fought 10 times, I would expect that both men would win more than a couple each, but at the end of the day, I think I'll pick Frazier to have more numbers in the win column. Joe Louis was a totally different kind of puncher than George Foreman was. He did not have the kind of power nore used the same sort of angles that Foreman utilized to lift Frazier off the canvas or knock him right off his feet. Louis relied on fast combinations of technical shots, which is great against most opponents. However, a man of Frazier's, style, handspeed, and upperbody movement would fair better against Louis than a man like Foreman. One last point, is that Louis was commonly troubled or decked by left hooks, and this was Frazier's sunday punch...

 

Mr. Magoo has a point about Louis & Foreman punch angles. Frazier had a sort of continous head movement which worked very well against straight punches but not so well against swinging roundhouse punches.

But Frazier could be hurt in the early rounds - Bonavena, Quarry I, Ali II, & Foreman in both fights. I would say that Louis punched harder than Bonavena, Quarry and Ali. Plus he had speed and accuracy better than Bonavena & Quarry. Chances are he could catch Frazier in the early rounds in spite of punching mostly straight. And if Louis hurts Frazier, don't expect Smokin' Joe to get off as lightly as he did against Ali, Bonavena & Quarry.

I think Louis had more of a weakness against right hand punches. But it has to be said that Louis too could be hit and hurt.

IMO, The Brown Bomber does succeed in putting away Frazier in, say 3 or 4 out of 10. He wins 3 or 4 by decision and loses 3 or 4. And no, I don't have a fascination for "3 or 4".

 

First of all, let's be a bit more fair to Frazier and use the 1967 - 1970 version.

Foreman NEVER beat the prime version of Frazier. The Frazier that he destroyed in two rounds, 1973, was indeed only two years removed from the FOTC, but there's a huge difference in conditoning. I'll put my money on the the Joe Frazier, just prior to the FOTC, to beat George Foreman inside ten rounds. Styles don't always make fights and Foreman never had to face a prime conditioned Frazier that would pound his body and make him miss with his trademark head movement. People on this forum also tend to discredit prime Frazier's overall speed, hand and foot. Foreman wouldn't be able to land the same shots that Ali landed because he doesn't have the handspeed. If prime Frazier was able to make Ali miss, there's certainly no reason why he wouldn't be able to make the much slower Foreman miss, and land to the body. If Frazier used the same tactics he did against Foreman, like he did against George Chuvalo, consisting of more jabs, right hands, more circling, less pressure and more body shots, George would be in a tougher fight. Say what you want about Mercante's officiating job in the 1973 title defense, but there's no denying the fact that he let George get away with more wrestling, holding and shoving tactics than any other referee. George wouldn't have the endurance to keep pushing a prime Frazier away, and eventually Frazier would take away his power from the result of his body attack. Any heavyweight in history, champion or contender would be very hard pressed to stop a prime 1967 -1970 Joe Frazier.

As for Joe Louis, he may have Frazier down early, like most bigger punchers could have, when facing him. Joe Louis is NOT bombing out prime Frazier, but he probably stops the 1973 conditioned Frazier in 5 or 6 rounds, not as quick as Foreman. Prime Frazier would KO a healthier Louis worse than what Marciano did to a depleted Louis.

 

round15,

I agree, a '67-'71 Frazier with a strict referee has a much better shot against '73 Foreman (than the Kingston Frazier).

 

Galento also nailed him with a left.

I already commented on this, and my explanation was this

 

Frazier may have had an additional 8 or 9 lbs on him, plus had lost a little bit of his edge, but there is a world of difference between being slightly removed from one's prime and being totally " shot."

Frazier fans rarely make any concessions for Ali losing 4 years of his career before entering the ring with Joe, but Frazier at age 29 and while holding the lineal championship and being less than two years past his best perfomance is somehow shot. I will also ad that if you watch the thrilla in manilla and check out the punch stats in that fight, it would hardly seem as though Frazier was a shell of himself, and keep in mind that fight occurred two years after the beating in Kingston Jamaica..

I will agree that Joe Frazier may have been slipping a tad in 1973, but I refuse to concur that he was totally shot, or that a younger Frazier by only 3 years, and weighing a few lbs less would go from getting creamed in two rounds to winning the fight....

Not happening....

 

Louis always had a hidden weakness against pressure fighters and Frazier would be the biggest pressure fighter he fought. Frazier punched harder than anyone Joe has fought except for Marciano, and I would say it would be tough for Joe to continuously keep Frazier at bay. However, with Joe's precision and fast punching I'd see him winning most fights with Frazier if they fought 10 times. If they fought 10 times Frazier would probably have a less chance after each fight bearing that type of fighter and style doesn't have the longevity of a Holmes, Ali, and Louis. Louis always came back strong in rematches. I suppose I'd pick Joe to win 7/10 of the fights, most by decision or late TKO. If Frazier wins, he wins by knockout or TKO or possibly a decision (Which I wouldn't see).

 

I think that if Louis wins a numbner of fights the chances are that at least one is going to be an early blowout.

Louis lost his first fight to Schmeling and stopped him in the first in the rematch.

He knew he had been in a fight against Buddy Baer first time round but stopped him in one in the rematch.

I think that if Louis thought an oponent was dangerous he was more likley to go for an early knockout. If this series is going to get messy for him then he is likley to pull a Foreman at some point

 

Louis was a methodical & meticulous type of fighter. He showed a lot of patience, often as if he knew he would get to his opponent sooner or later, very sure of himself!

I think Louis would be too accurate for Frazier! Joe often had to take a punch to land his own. That's not good when facing a guy like Louis.

Joe would give it everything though & if he caught Joe cleanly with the left hook, I'm not sure Louis would recover!

 

Foreman didn't use any angles or angled punches to knock Frazier out. Foreman's punches were wild winging shots, that he used to catch Frazier after illegaly shoving him off balance. He did the exact same thing with Norton as well, shoving him off balance and catching him with big shotsin the process.

Nobody should deny the fact that Mercante played a big role in Foreman's dominance in that 1973 title fight against Frazier. He allowed Foreman's wrestling and holding tactics to dictate the action, when George should have been penalized. Still, I believe he wouldn't have had the easy time with Frazier, especially if Joe came into the fight with the same dedication to training he paid to Ali. Too many on this forum conclude that Foreman would always destroy Frazier which is wrong.

 

Frazier's style would work a groove into Louis' tight boxing, but the straight right he threw would be a big problem for Frazier.

Generally, the adaptation and fight plan musing of Louis should swing the majority of these encounters in his favour.

An early stoppage is very much an option also because of Louis' accuracy and Frazier's eagerness. Where Foreman sometimes cuffed a dazed Frazier, Louis would be catching him for keeps.

 

Frazier wins 6 or 7 out of 10. Louis didn't like pressure and was prone to eating the left hook, which was Frazier's signature punch.