Just watched the Louis v Conn fight again and i just don't see Joe surviving against a Prime Ali if he carried his left that low. As others commented, it is interesting how much Conn managed to Stun Joe there and i would imagine Ali hit a damn site harder than Billy. Sorry to bring up an already flogged horse thread but if i had to pick one single reason why i have Ali over Louis it would be those right hand leads everytime.
Actually BlackCloud the people here will find some excuses to say Conn hit harder than Ali to justify how great Joe Louis is. You are right. If a blown up middleweight who couldn't punch a lick could hurt Louis then Ali would of put him away.
If Cooper could corner Ali, then Joe could too. Prime Louis was just as razor sharp as ALi and Ali struggled with jabbing from Doug Jones. Sure Ali has an excelent chance but I don't think too many people got the right hand over Louis' jab after the schmeling fight. Part of how max's right worked was because he sat down to take the jab in order to counter it, he knew that was the only way to connect once Louis was s in the process of using his left. Joe was such an economical puncher he really didn't reach out off target with his jab. He would only fire when he knew he could land. Years later against Charles he just would not throw at all for long periods because he was no longer fast enough to get into the right position. His habit was always to wait to be in position. ALI with his his dancing would not produce reaching jabs from Louis that could be countered. I think he would hunt Ali into the ropes like Cooper did but with cat like reactions that Ali never experienced from any opponent.
Well Conn certainly did and this was a much more experienced Louis, plus we all know Cooper & Jones were a few years before Ali's prime.
I always liked louis chances against Ali. Because of the Doug jones and cooper fights as stated. Ali struggled with smaller men with comparative hand speed. While on the surface conn's display seems favor the Ali argument remember Conn was a 169 pounds greased lighting, as fast as Ali was he was still a HW a way bigger man and as shown he could be countered by fast handed smaller opponents. A larger target to hit.
Again, can we class a 21yr old Ali as being prime? Using those criteria, can we judge a 23yr old Holmes losing to Nick Wells as being prime? I would also favour a 27 yr old Ali as being faster all round than Billy Conn and hitting a lot, lot harder.
Ali didn't throw a lot of right hand leads. Throwing them against Louis would be suicide. If Ali starts throwing right-hand leads at Louis, Ali will lose. Ali circles, jabs, throws the occasional one-two tries to do as much damage as he can before his legs give up. This fight would be a balancing act for Ali.
A faded zora Folley outboxed Ali for periods of their fight. Some will argue Ali toyed with opponents but often he was being outboxed. Clowning masked the fact he was being outboxed. Nobody looks further than the knock downs but Ali was not really winning rounds in that folley fight or the second Patterson fight where his size again told on faded foes. ALI would be difficult for Louis or any fighter but the fact remains a pin point 1940 Louis would be awful for Ali too.
Actually I change my opinion. Was almost knocked out by a 190 pound fighter and hurt by Doug Jones too and I felt he lost. You can say he wasn't in his prime but your chin doesn't get better with age. Logic would state Foreman was a lot harder puncher than Louis but not as sharp. Also I doubt Louis had a ego as big as Foreman where he would just throw wild punches like Foreman did out of anger. If Louis had Ali hurt he would finish him. But since Louis did have a weak chin himself he could be stopped too.
Ali took heavier punches later in his career better then he did against Cooper and Jones not because his chin got better but as often with maturing fighters his neck got stronger, a point often missed by those not really acquainted with boxing. Chocklab is right about Joe being able to catch Ali eventually on the ropes as a plodding Chuvalo was able to do it often in their first go and Sonny came close also. As far as right hand leads go the two Ali caught Folley with were as close to lightning and perfection that I have seen in decades of viewing.
