Louis v. Ali opposition.

Ali's comp was better.

Foreman, Frazier Liston and Patterson were top 15 all time greats. Louis beat no one who was better than those guys, and many of his best opponents wouldn't be rated in the 60's or 70's.

 

Yeah, that's the problem with this kind of logic.

You could take two fighters who each beat 25 opponents in their career. fight A beats 20 fighters who are all bums, but slightly better than the 20 Fighter B has fought. In their last 5 fights, Fighter A continues to fight bums, whereas B fights the best 5 fighters of all-time, beating all 5 easily.

Who has the better resume? A, because he beat 20 better opponents than B? or B, who beat 20 poor fighters, yet the 5 best ever.

Louis beat almost everyone around, but he just doesn't have a resume comparable to what Ali has. If you made a list of the best fighters either man beat, you could have a top 3 of Frazier, Foreman, Liston. Possibly even a top 5 including Patterson and Norton.

This logic just doesn't stand up. The man who beat the better fighters has the better resume. That is Ali, by a long way.

 

Tyson was the man.

 

I would say Ali had better opposition.

But what Joe did is legendary.

 

HA! :tired


Ali definately had better opposition, though Joe was the better/more dominant champion.

 

I don't think your method of "matching up" the strength of their opponents because the outcome is dependent on the choice of who you put next to each other. I also think there is no justification whatsoever to rank Cooper as the better win than Schmeling. And i would say Abe Simon is about even with Joe Bugner.

Overall i would give Ali the edge in quality (Frazier 3x, Liston, Foreman) whereas Louis has the edge in depth. A lot of guys on Ali's resume (say, Bonavena or Bugner) weren't that special, but have become very well known for losing to Ali and Frazier and became sort of higher regarded because of that. Louis doesn't have that advantage, but that doesn't make a devastating win over the top1 contender like Mauriello any less impressive.

 

Dumb post edited.

 

Your predictions are generaly corect but I will make a couple of observations.

There is not a cat in hells chance of Henry cooper beating Max Schmeling.

Abe Simon would be even money against both Mac Foster and Joe Bugner.

Archie moore even at the age he fought Ali would likley be too much for George Bresca.

Even a shot Jack Sharkey is probably too much for Billy Daniels.

I would make George Chuvalo a clear favourite over Harry Thomas.

 

if you can name your top 15 without totally embarressing yourself now i'd be amazed.

 

Louis best wins are over Schmeling, Baer, Conn, and Walcott. Clearly Foreman, Frazier and Liston eat these three for lunch.

In fact guys like Norton, Lyle, Quarry, Shavers, and Patterson could beat Schemling, Baer, Conn and Walcott on any given night.

Ali's competition was significantly better than Louis'

 

I could play devils advocate and suggest that the only reason Ali's title opponents are rated higher than Louis's is because some of them beat him.

 

Well, Schemling beat Louis too. And if the judges were fair, so did Walcott.

The diffrence is no one thinks Shchmeling or Walcott are better than Joe Frazier.

Louis fought some good guys, but none of them were better than Foreman, Liston or Frazier.

 

Read what I said again. :roll: