Louis v. Ali opposition.

Its not my fault I cant read.

 

:good

 

In all fairness one could easily say that Max Schmeling is best known for beating Louis to. Also, I disagree that Frazier needed Ali to make a name for himself. He was a gold medalist and an undefeated champion before meating Ali. He had beaten many of the division's top contenders and was a lot of peoples' favorite going into the fight of the century. If Frazier had never faced Muhammad, then I have no doubt that his legacy may have been a bit diluted, however he didn't need the win over Ali as much as Schmeling did over Louis to be remembered. A similar argument could be made for Holmes.

 

The thread author is being very generous to Louis. You can't tell me Lou Nova was better than Floyd Patterson, or that Bob Pastor was better than Ernie Terrell.

 

For whatever reason, you seem to dislike most fighters who many claim are all time greats. Over the past several months you have claimed that:

Holmes sucks

Foreman sucks

Frazier sucks

Lewis sucks

Patterson sucks

Who exactly, other than Tyson of course, do feel was a good fighter, or are you just trying to rattle chains around here?

 

Bob Pastor was better than Earnie Terrell.

 

I have not seen Bob Pastor fight, and have seen only a little of Earnie Terrell. What specific attributes in your opinion, made Pastor a better fighter than Terrell?

The answer to your question should be based on what you've seen of these two fighters, and not things like legacy or wins over ranked contenders.

 

Tough call.

I certainly think that without the Ali win Frazier would slip beneath Schmeling on many lists. I guess that without the Louis win Schmeling could at least claim a win against Jack Sharkey.

 

It was based on legacy that I hoped to make the case.

Head to head it is harder because both have beaten good fighters quite like the other stylisticaly.

 

Jack Sharkey is not regarded by most as an all time great. He had no title defenses, and lost close to a third of his matches. He was probably on par with men like Ellis, Quarry, and Foster, all of whom Frazier anialated. In fact, I'd say that Quarry proabably beat a better volume of talent than did Sharkey.

 

I suppose a strong case can be made that Pastor beat better fighters, such as Bivens, Thompson, Ray, and several others. He was one of the few men to truly face some of the best black talent of those days, while others didn't.

Again, I haven't seen any of these fights, and don't even know what type of footage is readily available of Pastor. I have however seen a bit of Terrell, and frankly I'm not impresssed. He never quite figured out how to use his height to its fullest adavantage, and had virtually no footwork or upperbody movement. He wasn't terribly aggressive and at times almost looked like a statue in the ring. Ernie also had little power for a man of his size, and was to put it bluntly, a boring fighter to sit and watch for 12 or 15 rounds.

Take a look at Ali vs Terrell below if you haven't already, and you'll see what I mean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEXY9esJOJ8

 

Sharkey is a funny old fish. He could screw up the simplest fistic task one day and then catch lightning in a bottle the next. If he had his head screwed on straight he could really have gone places.

In terms of the number of world class fighters he beat he is actualy among the most prolific heavyweights of all time believe it or not. We have to take him seriously as a historical fighter for this if nothing else.

 

No.

 

Yes damn you!

 

But Terrell was black.