Louis vs Ali

Historically, it is kind of a draw!

 

I favor Louis here

 

Never really liked Louis' chance in this one, especially if we're talking prime for prime. But even outside of those parameters I think Ali has the necessary edges here. He just proved it against a much better calibre of opposition throughout his career, but I think on a technical level he's all wrong for Joe.

Ali wasn't a great inside fighter and could be roughed up in close and pushed back, but Louis fought with a more methodical pressure which Ali would be better at dealing with. Louis' feet are a problem for me in this one, and if he's against a younger version of Ali then I think Ali is too quick, elusive and mobile for him.

Louis' best performances (in my eyes, anyway) were against both of the Baers and Schmeling (the rematch), but these guys had nothing in common with Ali in terms of style. Guys with speed and clever footwork tended to give him all sorts of trouble, such as Conn and Walcott. Yes, I know - Louis went 4-0 in those fights, so it seems odd to use that against him here. But of those four fights, he was well behind in two of them before getting the knockout, and one of them was a dodgy, gift-wrapped decision. Let's not forget that Conn was never a Heavyweight in any case (weighed inside the Light-Heavy limit for that 1941 bout!) and Walcott, brilliant though he was, wasn't in Ali's class.

Louis was made to look technically average a few too many times in or around his best years (Schmeling I, Godoy, Conn I etc.) for me to think he can pin down the quicksilver, young Ali, who basically looked in a class all of his own during his first reign and who was still beating all-time great Heavyweights in his second. Louis is my clear number two all-time Heavyweight in terms of resume and achievements, but I'd place him a little lower in a head-to-head rating, and I think Ali would be the guy to really rubber-stamp that belief.

Louis would have his moments, and wouldn't look a fool by any means, but assuming both men are at their best I like Ali to win this by a clear-ish margin on the cards.

 

Bad match up for Louis who had trouble with boxer / mover types. Vs Ali, he's giving up height and range, and Ali's chin was far better than sat Conn or Walcott's which would prevent a miracle come from behind type of KO.

This could be a mismatch, with Ali winning 12 of the 15 rounds. Louis was just to slow-footed, and to easy to hit.

 

I can't see how anyone that has watched all available Louis footage there is and Ali footage would conclude that Louis has a chance here...

Ali whips him. Thoroughly.

Louis lacks the legs, durability, and chin to even go the distance.

Ali stops him mid-late rounds.

 

Ali was not in his prime any time he fought Norton, but as far as I can tell Louis does literally everything better than Norton, across the board.
This is a grueling fight and a fascinating chess match that leaves both men battered and spent. A knockout could come in the late rounds, but more likely the the winner wins by split decision.

 

Both men pose stylistic problems for each other.
Louis had issues with movers, Conn 1, Pastor looked good at times against him, Walcott 1 & 2, (although Walcott’s movement was rather unique and not really applicable for me). (And Joe was ancient)
Joe liked to stalk and maximize his incredible punching power which means he was often flat footed. That can be detrimental against a mover.
On the flip side Ali always looked his best against bigger slower heavies (which the media always loved and would pick to win against Ali and end up eating crow), however smaller heavies that had solid technique and good athleticism posed problems for Ali.
In size and somewhat in style I would say the heavies that resemble Louis that Ali fought were Doug Jones, Henry Cooper, Zora Foley and Ken Norton.
All of them gave Ali a fight and none of them were as good as Louis.
For Louis he didn’t fight anyone Quite like Ali. He fought some movers like king Levinsky (but he apparently froze and was never even in the fight) Sharkey was well past prime. And then the afore mentioned Conn. Conn was lightning quick but really only a light heavy at best and smaller than Louis.
The heavyweight that would of gave us the best insight into this matchup retired 5 years before Louis turned pro - Tunney.

As for who I believe who would of won - between Ali and Louis it comes down to this - if Louis had trouble letting his hands go because he wanted to set before he punched at Ali I think Ali wins, if Louis resolved that issue and let’s his hands go I think Ali has major problems and Louis wins.

 

A young Ali is too big and fast for Louis, IMO. Ali by kayo sometime after the 10th round. I just don't see Louis being able to touch the pre-exile Ali.

The post-exile Ali, however, neglected his training and consequently tended to run out of gas and stall and coast as much as possible. If he does a rope-a -dope, I can see Joe having a fair chance. Even so, if I had to call a winner I would bet on Ali. Ali had very fast hands and would likely be able to land flurries on Louis like he did Foreman. Louis was susceptible to a right hand, and Ali always seemed to find a way to win. I also think Ali took a better punch than Louis.

I don't think the ring size matters much in the outcome, but it might make a better fight. Probably a shorter fight as well.

 

Excellent analysis. Lee Ramage was another mover who Louis fought and he did fairly well in their first fight, such that he wanted a second crack. Louis destroyed him the second time but he seems quite mobile from the footage I've seen.
Norton and Frazier also had rather "plodding" footwork, one must add.

 

id favor myself to stop prime lennox lewis

 

who? mike tyson or buddy baer?

 

Rex Layne actually

 

Ali is a much better version of Walcott. Spells trouble for Louis.