Louis vs Dempsey ( probably revisited )

mr. magoo · Mar 4, 2008

This thread has most likely been done several times before, and for all I know, I may even have partaken in it, but don't remember

Anyway, this is a very important fantasy matchup in my opinion. These two men were not just mere title holders passing through the shadows of time, but rather icons that defined whole generations. Furthermore, their similarities include the fact that they were both all time great punchers, and in a sense, pioneers of the game if you will.

Louis was one of the first African American heavyweight champions. He represented the western world during one of the darkest times in its history. In an age where much racial discrimination still existed, Louis became a universal symbol of freedom and justice that unified people of all different backgrounds. Jack johnson was the first black heavyweight champion, and while I don't want to make this a discussion about the Galveston Giant, his tenure as champion was very different from Louis's. He was certainly an idol of the black community, but not so much in white circles. He was viewed as arrogant, and really served little purpose in being the universal bond that would unite all Americans and other westerners the way that Louis did. Joe reigned for nearly 12 years and compiled an unmatched legacy of 25 title defenses. He also beat fought/beat some 9 past, present or future world champions. His style of fast combination punching has yet to be duplicated. He was one of the best.

Jack Dempsey holds a very high level of importance to American and to boxing. For years prior to his ascent to the title, heavyweight boxing was declining. Jess Willard was basically ignored by the public, and was mainly inactive for nearly 3 years after winning the title. The appealing prescenses of Jeffries and Johnson were long gone. Additionally, the old London prize rules were becomming more and more a thing of the past. The fans needed something new. Something astonishing that would breath life back into their interest in boxing. Dempsey gave it to them. Jack was One of the first heavyweight punchers to truly grasp the concept of using the ring while incorporating a ferocious arsenal of deadly attack simultaneously. He was indeed a beast of new bread. In addition, he was the first to generate multi million dollar fight gates, which inspired many athletes to take up boxing.

Who do you like in this match, and what are your reasons?

Sardu · Mar 4, 2008

I would take Dempsey because in addition to hitting just as hard and having just as fast hands he had a much better chin than Louis. It is concievable that if Dempsey knocks Louis down early - ala Galento or Braddock - Louis does not make it out of the round. Remember, Dempsey was a shark in his prime and when he got someone hurt he finished them - the battle of the longcount notwithstanding. Of course, Louis could very well have picked Dempsey apart too. When you have two fighters as great as these it is really hard to pick who would win. My pick prime on prime would be Dempsey though because that is the kind of fight it would be.

Dempsey KO 5 Louis

PhillyPhan69 · Mar 4, 2008

I like dempsey better and find him under rated (but that is another thread!)....But I would lean towards louis in this encounter. Dempsey landing early and dropping Louis in the manner some lesser fighters have (don't mean to bash him!), wouldn't surprise me...he has the tools to follow up and end this early as well (and maybe late?)...but I just see prime for prime, Louis being to skilled...I would lean towards louis in a decision...but would not be shocked to see dempsey pull this off either...how's that for riding the fence!

Russell · Mar 4, 2008

I'd favor Dempsey.

mr. magoo · Mar 4, 2008

These are all very good responses, and all have good reasons within them. I am however, a bit surprised that no Louis advocates have come forth.

This would be a very tough match for me to chose from as well, but I might be inclined to going against the norm here and pick Louis. Although neither of these men ever faced an opponent of the other's calibur, I think Louis defeated a wider array of better fighters overall. Remember, Louis defeated at least 6 men who at one time or another were world champions. He also remained competitve to a very late stage in his life, and it took another all time great to send him into retirement. Some have validly pointed out that Louis was floored by men like Galento, Baer, and Braddock, then proceeded to say that if it was Dempsey in there, he'd finish joe. Dempsey had his moments too, and being knocked out of the ring by Firpo was one of them. In addition, while Joe never faced a man like Jack, he certainly fought a number of guys who were closer in quality to him than did Dempsey to Louis, if that makes any sense. Dempsey certainly had more footwork, but Louis was the king of combination punchers and has my vote as THEE greatest puncher of all time.

Louis by KO or stoppage late.

PhillyPhan69 · Mar 4, 2008

mr. magoo said:

These are all very good responses, and all have good reasons within them. I am however, a bit surprised that no Louis advocates have come forth.

This would be a very tough match for me to chose from as well, but I might be inclined to going against the norm here and pick Louis. Although neither of these men ever faced an opponent of the other's calibur, I think Louis defeated a wider array of better fighters overall. Remember, Louis defeated at least 6 men who at one time or another were world champions. He also remained competitve to a very late stage in his life, and it took another all time great to send him into retirement. Some have validly pointed out that Louis was floored by men like Galento, Baer, and Braddock, then proceeded to say that if it was Dempsey in there, he'd finish joe. Dempsey had his moments too, and being knocked out of the ring by Firpo was one of them. In addition, while Joe never faced a man like Jack, he certainly fought a number of guys who were closer in quality to him than did Dempsey to Louis, if that makes any sense. Dempsey certainly had more footwork, but Louis was the king of combination punchers and has my vote as THEE greatest puncher of all time.

Louis by KO or stoppage late.
Click to expand...

All good observations...(and I did pick louis! albeit by decision)...pretty much similar reasons to why I would pick louis...I still can't call Jack a no chance...but i wouldn't pick it!

Sonny's jab · Mar 4, 2008

I think it would be a short fight. Brilliant and explosive, I dont see it going more than 4 or 5 rounds.

It's one of those perfect match-ups where I really cannot favour one over the other.

Imagine the atmosphere, anticipation, that "butterflies" feeling, as these two stand in opposite corners waiting for that opening bell.

Hopefully, one day in my lifetime, an evil scientist will get hold of some of their DNA, clone them, and train and condition them to fight from birth. Then the world will get to see this fight for real. whoohahahaha ! (Evil laugh)

mcvey · Mar 5, 2008

mr. magoo said:

This thread has most likely been done several times before, and for all I know, I may even have partaken in it, but don't remember

Anyway, this is a very important fantasy matchup in my opinion. These two men were not just mere title holders passing through the shadows of time, but rather icons that defined whole generations. Furthermore, their similarities include the fact that they were both all time great punchers, and in a sense, pioneers of the game if you will.

Louis was one of the first African American heavyweight champions. He represented the western world during one of the darkest times in its history. In an age where much racial discrimination still existed, Louis became a universal symbol of freedom and justice that unified people of all different backgrounds. Jack johnson was the first black heavyweight champion, and while I don't want to make this a discussion about the Galveston Giant, his tenure as champion was very different from Louis's. He was certainly an idol of the black community, but not so much in white circles. He was viewed as arrogant, and really served little purpose in being the universal bond that would unite all Americans and other westerners the way that Louis did. Joe reigned for nearly 12 years and compiled an unmatched legacy of 25 title defenses. He also beat fought/beat some 9 past, present or future world champions. His style of fast combination punching has yet to be duplicated. He was one of the best.

Jack Dempsey holds a very high level of importance to American and to boxing. For years prior to his ascent to the title, heavyweight boxing was declining. Jess Willard was basically ignored by the public, and was mainly inactive for nearly 3 years after winning the title. The appealing prescenses of Jeffries and Johnson were long gone. Additionally, the old London prize rules were becomming more and more a thing of the past. The fans needed something new. Something astonishing that would breath life back into their interest in boxing. Dempsey gave it to them. Jack was One of the first heavyweight punchers to truly grasp the concept of using the ring while incorporating a ferocious arsenal of deadly attack simultaneously. He was indeed a beast of new bread. In addition, he was the first to generate multi million dollar fight gates, which inspired many athletes to take up boxing.

Who do you like in this match, and what are your reasons?
Click to expand...

Dempsey early ,inside three probably ,but if Joe makes it past that he could take control with his jab and fast combos.

fists of fury · Mar 5, 2008

Last time, I predicted a stoppage win for Louis in 7. Still sticking with that.

Better and sharper puncher, threw straighter punches, better defense.

I think he'd tag Dempsey coming in.

dmt · Mar 5, 2008

I agree they were both very popular and are two of my most favourite fighters. If i had to pick one id give a slight edge to Louis but anything could happen and Manassa Mauler had a good shot here

janitor · Mar 5, 2008

fists of fury said:

Last time, I predicted a stoppage win for Louis in 7. Still sticking with that.

Better and sharper puncher, threw straighter punches, better defense.

I think he'd tag Dempsey coming in.
Click to expand...

This is my thinking but none of my money is going down.

mcvey · Mar 5, 2008

janitor said:

This is my thinking but none of my money is going down.
Click to expand...

Like you I wouldnt bet on it,but Id sell my house to watch it!

JIm Broughton · Mar 5, 2008

Very difficult fight to call imo but I'll say this, IF Dempsey decks Joe early in the fight and Joe manages to get up, Dempsey will finish him plain and simple. We're not talking Tony Galento or Jim Braddock or Tami Mauriello here, we're talking about one of the most ferocious HW champions of all time and a great finisher to boot. Dempsey was fast on the attack and would jump all over Joe as soon as he got up. He simply would'nt let him recover. Joe was'nt a dancer like Tunney who could get on his bicycle and play for time until his head cleared. Joe would stand right in front of Jack and try to fight back or cover up and that spells disaster for Joe in my book. Still in all though this is just one possible scenario in a fight that has many possible outcomes. A tough one to call to say the least.

Bummy Davis · Mar 5, 2008

I think this is a war, Dempsey was fast and had power, Louis may taste the flloor early but get up to catch Jack with a few of his classic combos. I see this fight going into the 10th to 15 th rd and I favor Joe but this is a tough win with al ot of back and forth ebb and flow...but I think Joe take it

RoccoMarciano · Mar 5, 2008

Bummy Davis said:

I think this is a war, Dempsey was fast and had power, Louis may taste the flloor early but get up to catch Jack with a few of his classic combos. I see this fight going into the 10th to 15 th rd and I favor Joe but this is a tough win with al ot of back and forth ebb and flow...but I think Joe take it
Click to expand...

When did Dempsey ever face a fighter of Louis calibre? Answer, never!

I feel Dempsey, and what he accomplished at HW is overrated to the extreme. Trying to compare him with Louis is like camparing an apple to an orange. If Dempsey had a resume to compare, my view would be different, the only problem is, he doesn't!

I'm not really arguing with your post, Bummy, I do think Dempsey is a little overrated though.

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