Louis vs Sharkey with original Broadcast from 1936

I totally agree with you having seen the film of the fight.

I've looked at a lot of the Daily News boxing coverage of great fights of that era, and that was really out of character, the rest of the stuff was much different (and very compelling). Those guys must have had some kind of personal animosity against Sharkey, maybe he stiffed them on an interview or something.

 

As I said, IF Carnera's uppercut was sufficient to render Sharkey unconscious, the shots that Louis landed before Sharkey surrendered could be reasonably calculated to have been more than sufficient to have done same - but, somehow, they didn't.

The other, more obvious perspective on Sharkey moving forward on Carnera, and still coming forward even if hit, is that Sharkey wasn't being so badly hurt if at all by Carnera's punches.

Until the KO punch, Sharkey's off-balance moments and several falls into the ropes were far more due to Carnera's shoving, mauling and the push force of semi connected punches.

If you were going to opt for defense, Louis was the guy you did it against, not Primo. Even so, Louis hit Sharkey with a lot more power shots than Primo did - a point I've already made.

Though 6 years prior to the Carnera fight - even Jack Dempsey, availed of a free shot with the choice left hook (following the low blow) didn’t see Sharkey actually “out” - rather, he was still more preoccupied clutching at his newly dented, family jewels.

 

Being appropriately more specific, Louis floored Pastor 4 times in round 1 and once in round 2. Nearly had him out inside of 1 round but not quite.

Another 8 + rounds went by before Louis dropped Pastor again, via a single shot, which was for keeps.

Each KD was virtually via single shots, such was Louis’ power - which in fact allowed Pastor respite after each shot/KD - Bob taking 8-9 counts each time.

Pastor was clearly game but if he’d taken 2-3 of the same shots whilst holding his feet he would’ve been out.

Pastor played a very nice stick and move game thereafter, and it wasn’t until the 11th when Louis connected again with a single, truly solid shot.

The Conn fight came after Louis KO’d Pastor for the FIRST time in Pastor’s career so Pastor’s durability might’ve been conceivably dented.

You can guess Pastor surrendered (“refused to get up?”) - but you don’t know - he was on his hands and knees, repeatedly shaking his head - and he certainly didn’t jump up after the 10 count was completed - as many have when they’ve only stayed down for the completion of the count.

Conn didn’t drop Pastor until much later in their fight, first in round 9, second time in round 12 and 3rd time in round 13 for the 10 count via a body shot, which obviously didn’t render Pastor unconscious.

You didn’t mention this fact in due balance, you just said Conn KO’d Pastor - any possibility the still conscious Pastor “refused” to arise after the final KD vs Conn? - which was notably a body shot, not a head shot.

The treatment should be equal.

When you know and appreciate the chronology and actual complexion of both fights there isn’t anything to scratch your head about.

 

FYI, I looked back in some NY Daily News issues leading up to the fight, apparently one of the writers (Miley) who savaged Sharkey in what I posted was PO'd at him. Apparently a few days before the fight the writer was out at the race track, and so were Sharkey and his manager during a break in training (I guess he didn't go totally Spartan like Marciano getting ready for a fight LOL), and the writer said he said hello and Sharkey high-hatted him very nastily, snarled at him for having the audacity to speak to him. I do think Sharkey had the reputation of being a cantankerous cuss.

Also, in another piece after the fight the other writer I posted (Powers) brought out the "Sharkey took a dive against Carnera" stuff, questioning his heart.

I guess they thought Sharkey should've kept getting up until he was carried out in a black bag or something ...

 

Cooper was known to have a powerful left hook otherwise - “ ‘Enry’s ‘Ammer”.

Carnera wasn’t known to be a reputable puncher.

I don’t believe his uppercut was bestowed its own name unless they called it his “Sharkey Special”.

 

I like it.

And believe me Pedro, I am hearing you and totally respect your points - despite all context otherwise, the eye test per our own subjective vision is the most important (as it should be) evidence we can defer to.

I will say, despite all rationalised likelihoods or lack thereof, I could never flatly state that, in all possibility, the uppercut wasn’t a legit KO punch.

Actually, that isn’t a bad thread idea, boxers who gave or had names bestowed for their choice punches.

For one, I believe old timer Frank Moran called his right hand Mary Ann(e?). Not sure of the rationale or origin behind the name.

 

You’ve presented your side well. No worries there.

There are a good number here who firmly agree with your view that it was a legit KO.

Arrr, you might be correct on Moran re his having a possible penchant for pirates..

It might’ve got confused somewhere along the line - but Larry Holmes was called Big Jack by those in his inner circle.

However, I believe later that Holmes also referred to his right hand as Big Jack - but I can’t confirm that 100%.

Big Jack wasn’t a term that was used that often, it seems - but I do recall it being yelled from Holmes’ corner during the Ali fight - be it a reference to Larry himself or his right hand.

Ingo of course had his Bingo, his Hammer and Toonder and Lightning.

First career Foreman once said he didn’t need judges, saying that he carried his own “Judges”, accompanied by George holding up both his massive left and right fists. Fair enough.

He could’ve been called “Judge, Jury and Executioner” George, preferring to move his “cases” through real quick.

 

@Pedro_El_Chef and @Pugguy enjoyable to read a robust, but respectful debate, between two fine posters.

 

Hi Pugguy.
There was an article in a very old Ring mag, that I read about 30 years ago, regarding Kid McCoy and his corkscrew punch, apparently the Kid was at a friends house early in his career, and the guy had a pet cat, for amusement the guy would roll up a wool ball, about the size of a orange, with a thread about 6 inches long, then dangle the ball just in front of his cat, McCoy noticed that just before the cat's paw landed, he would twist it causing more damage to the wool ball than would otherwise be expected, with that the Kid practised the punch avidly for months prior to his big fights, and credited the excessive damage to his opponents face to the " corkscrew punch " you read it here first.
stay safe Pugguy, chat soon.

 

High compliment coming from a poster of your own top shelf quality and pristine conduct Greg. Cheers for that.