Lucian Bute has a glass jaw!

flashy k.o · Feb 21, 2012

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hey

Maiden#1 · Feb 21, 2012

MrMagic said: ↑

For the record, I don't use alts like you butte-lickers.

By my estimation, forreal seems like a genuinely knowledgeable poster, by the looks of it.
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I honnestly feel sad for you....:verysad

chitownfightfan · Feb 21, 2012

mark.cooper said: ↑

I'm not very sure what do you mean by "knowledge" and evidence for it.

First of all, let's agree on the meaning of the expression "glass jaw". A short dictionary definition is "a jaw that is excessively fragile or susceptible to punches", that is 1. it either breaks easily or 2. its owner gets very easily KD/KO-ed if his mandible receives a punch. Other definitions complete the understanding of the two above mentioned basic meanings: "a person's jaw, especially that of a boxer, that is vulnerable to even a light blow",
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"The name given to a boxer who has a weak chin. Usually one who has been knocked out several times.", "a weak jaw that is easily broken, especially as an indication of a fighters vulnerability to an opponents punches.". There is also a dedicated thread on this very forum and a nice extended definition at some point of the discussions: "The inability to sustain a solid punch at the world class level from a fighter that is considered feather fisted or lacking in power, without showing the visible effects of a physically damaged fighter (i.e. spaghetti legs, chicken dancing, excessive running, hugging or holding or just being left laid out sleeping on the canvas for minutes on end). It also pertains to the boxers ability to recover from such a shot." (corrected spelling). So one has to keep in mind all these context details in any further analysis.

Once we agree on the meaning of the expression, we can step forward and see if Bute's jaw meets the requirements to be classified as such.
AFAIK, the #1 meaning can be excluded from this discussion: Lucian Bute has never physically broken his mandible, consequently we should concentrate on #2.
The arguments allegedly pointing to a sensible-jawed Bute are the two standard boxing facts: 1. the Golovkin KO in the amateurs and 2. the 12th round Andrade KD at the end of their first match. One could also mention 3. Bute's usually prudent boxing strategies, not involving taking up heavy risks.
Are these arguments crucial and decisive?

1. The Golovkin KO: it was an exceptionally heavy punch from a physically very strong opponent (just check out his "pro" record, all his fights from 2009 on ended in KOs or TKOs) which landed not on the chin but on his face. Consequently, one cannot argue about with this example about his jaw sensibility (he wasn't hit on the jaw in that occasion) to even a light blow (it was a very heavy blow); one might still wonder a bit about the "inability to sustain a solid punch at the world class level [...]". Nevertheless, even this wondering should fade out when considering the successive chunk of information contained in that definition "[...] from a fighter that is considered feather fisted or lacking in power": there is no way to classify Golovkin as "feather fisted" or "lacking power" (apart the fact there was no jaw involved). So this argument does not prove Lucian Bute has a glass jaw (in any of the above mentioned meanings), it proves that a very heavy punch landed on his face in a moment of low defense did hurt him bad enough to put an end of that fight. But this is not called "glass jaw".

2. The Andrade KD: as already hinted out, Bute falling on the ropes was the result of progressive physical exhaustion (increasingly obvious during the last round of that fight) combined with the mechanical push effect of Andrade's blow. Bute did not looked tremendously worse after that punch, he was already looking bad before it (he even used the ropes for standing on the ring just seconds before). Moreover, even if one would want to assert against obvious evidence that the main cause of his fall was neither physical exhaustion nor the mechanical push effect of the punch but the impact shock effect of Andrade's blow, this alleged effect has been able to keep him on the ropes for less than 10 seconds: one cannot really call that "excessive sensibility". On another hand, if one looks carefully to the last operational definition, Bute was by all means a "damaged fighter" when that punch occurred, so the conditions to call him a "glass jaw" were clearly not met even in this case.

3. This argument might be rephrased like this: "Bute knows he has a weak chin, therefore he has to choose only fighting strategies minimizing the probability of receiving blows on his jaw". This could be right, but it's just guessing. Actually, a strategy involving accepting countless blows on the chin would be a very weak strategy; not only the fighter would get hurt on a long term even with a rock solid jaw, but the referees do consider also these punches when they decide to which fighter the round should go. In all fairness, this is a matter of rational choice rather than a weak chin protection strategy.

What we do really have pointing towards a normal-jaw Bute are his matches with other good punchers. Statistically, his mandible received a certain number of solid blows during these fights: had it been a "glass jaw", it would have produced observable effects according to all definitions above. But it didn't. Bute has no series of KOs/KDs, he has just two such events (still not pointing towards "glass jaw") occurred in different and particular circumstances during his entire amateur/pro career.

Summing up:
1. there is no real evidence suggesting Bute has a "glass jaw" (in the above meaning)
2. there is evidence suggesting Bute has a normal jaw
Therefore, at least until an improbable further event would force us to change our minds, we have to agree Bute has no "glass jaw", within the limits of the current usual meanings of this expression.
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Good post......

However, using such vast and extensive knowledge on this board is relatively a mute point. There are only a handful of posters here that can read more than 2-3 sentences in succession.:-(

DanishFightfan · Feb 21, 2012

chitownfightfan said: ↑

You've just proved your absolute IGNORANCE with this post.

A true chin checker knows that a fighters chin is most vulnerable in the first round. If his chin is glass, you'll see it early rather than late.

And that shot from Golovkin would've KD'd Ernie Shavers.:rofl
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forreal · Feb 21, 2012

chitownfightfan said: ↑

You've just proved your absolute IGNORANCE with this post.

A true chin checker knows that a fighters chin is most vulnerable in the first round. If his chin is glass, you'll see it early rather than late.

And that shot from Golovkin would've KD'd Ernie Shavers.:rofl
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Getting your jaw shattered in the early rounds makes it more disgraceful, i will give Bute that he lasted till the last round.. But in the end.. It got shattered..

Wass1985 · Feb 21, 2012

forreal said: ↑

Chill bro.. I simply agreed with you, why are everyone so aggresive around here? :huh
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Sorry I thought you was having a go, people do make me laugh claiming a fighter as a glass jaw just because they've been put down. So by their claims Marciano, Ali, Lamotta all have glass jaws because they touched the canvas, some people are utterly clueless!

Master Lewis · Feb 21, 2012

MrMagic said: ↑

For the record, I don't use alts like you butte-lickers.

By my estimation, forreal seems like a genuinely knowledgeable poster, by the looks of it.
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This is the proof that you're nothing more than a stupid hater.

flashy k.o · Feb 21, 2012

forreal said: ↑

Getting your jaw shattered in the early rounds makes it more disgraceful, i will give Bute that he lasted till the last round..
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:yep:deal

Sir Koolkid · Feb 21, 2012

bailey said: ↑

Many of the current SMWs dont have outstanding chins. Bute as shown here was stopped and was in trouble against Andrade. Ward was knocked down and wobbly legged against Boone in getting a lucky decision and was also hurt in another fight. Andre Dirrell was smashed to the floof by a journeyman looking hurt and KOd by Abraham, Steiglitz has suffered KOs.
Froch has shown a good chin but it looks ready to go, with his wobbly legs against Dirrell.
Kessler still shows a good chin, though I dont think he takes body shots well.

Gone are the days where SMWs had great chins where even if they were put over they werent staggering around and having to cling on for dear life. Calzaghe, Ottke, Eubank never did this, in fairness neither did prime Reid, and Woodhall didnt really either
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anyone who thinks being KD means you don't have a good chin is stupid and don't know sh!t about boxing.

I guess margarito's chin is sh!t because mosley KO'd him. Mosley's chin is sh!t because pac KD him. Pac's chin is sh!t because morales KO'd him. JMM chin is sh!t because pac KD him. Froch's chin is sh!t because taylor KD him. Hopkins chin is sh!t because pascal KD him. Ali, foreman, frazier all has sh!t chins because they got KD

direll, ward, kessler, froch all have solid chins and they have all been proven. None of them have been KO'd. They have all got up from KD's only showing me there chins are tough or they wouldn't get up and finish the whole fight. Not many KO's at all in the top of the SMW division and there's a reason for that and its because they all have good chins.

Sir Koolkid · Feb 21, 2012

being dropped is as much to do with skill as quality of chin.

des3995 · Feb 21, 2012

I find myself in the habit of defending guys on here lately. But Bute got beaten and battered around the ring that last round and went down......so the **** what. It happens in boxing. Doesn't mean the guy is glass jawed.

And despite the ref's highly questionable behavior and the extreme amount of time it took him to count to 10, Bute was up before 10 seconds had run off the clock.

flashy k.o · Feb 21, 2012

Bute took quite well hard shots from Bika who's a hard puncher ! So , he has a good chin !

End of discussion !

Ro.sTEFan · Feb 21, 2012

MrMagic said: ↑

For the record, I don't use alts like you butte-lickers.

By my estimation, forreal seems like a genuinely knowledgeable poster, by the looks of it.
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You'll probably agree with anyone that hates Bute, even if that person ***** slapped your mama.

forreal · Feb 21, 2012

flashy k.o said: ↑

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:yep:deal
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This is a boxing forum.. I'm simply discussing Lucian Bute's chin, i'm not trolling i am just trying to enlighten you with the conclussions i have made from the evidence i have been studying :deal..

MrMagic · Feb 21, 2012

Ro.sTEFan said: ↑

You'll probably agree with anyone that hates Bute, even if that person ***** slapped your mama.
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And?

Even killers can voice a factual opinion, should I not agree with it because he's less of a man than anyone else?

FYI, the TS seems like a nice fellow.

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Lucian Bute has a glass jaw!

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Lucian Bute has a glass jaw!

flashy k.o Supporter of E.E fighters Full Member

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