LWT FINAL - DURAN v WHITAKER

I'd pick Whitaker via decision. And I'm a massive fan of both fighters.

Whitaker had the perfect balance of offense and defense to outscore Duran. While he did stand up close with his opponents more often than not at lightweight, he did show against Ramirez in their first fight and Nelson that he could box sufficiently with lateral movement to score at long range.

IMO opinion Duran never had one punch KO power at lightweight as his devastating knockouts were usually down the stretch. He wore opponents down and got them exactly where he wanted them, then goodnight.

Whitaker never had the power to keep Duran off him, but he had the skills and ring generalship to negate Duran's aggression from being effective.

Duran would not hit Whitaker often enough to stop him, and in the proccess would be recieving more shots than dishing out, which means losing rounds.

Manassa and Stonehands disagree. But I can live with their constructive and objective stance, unlike Redrooster's outrageous views on Leonard.

 

I think that Duran would win... Not by much

I think that Roberto may have found Pea hard to hit early on. But i think that he would be able to outbox duran in the initial exchanges. However, i do not think that it would be a domination early.
I think that Roberto would start to be able to hit pea a bit more easily in the lmid/later rounds because he would have slowed him down a bit with bodywork.

I think that the major point in this fight is that Pea despite IMO being able to outbox every other lightweight bar a few imo would not be able to hurt duran and when duran had slowed him down he would hit him much more easily without being hurt very much in return he would then go on to take most of the later rounds with it going to the cards.

Duran UD 9-6

 

It's hard to bet against Whittaker but I believe Duran had the perfect style to beat him: a bollocks out swarmer, throwing punch after punch...

Whittaker would be making him miss but too busy avoiding what's coming his way to mount any serious offence.

 

Both you and Ezzard assert that each man had the style best suited to deal with the other.

Whitaker would fulfill your views for about 6 or 7 rounds -but it would not be without cost. Whitaker may even win them before Duran's pressure and body punching began to take its toll. If Whitaker had a shot that was akin to say Benny Leonard or even Chavez, I'd side with him because it would force Duran to consider risks and thereby lessen his output. Whitaker however does not have a shot that Duran must be wary of. Nor does he have the requisite physical strength to deal with him inside.

Whitaker would be forced to either (a) fight on the backfoot all night or (b) meet Duran and exchange.

Let's consider both:
(a) Nelson wasn't applying anything like the pressure that you can bet Duran would put on him. Nelson was a day late and a dollar short all night. I don't think Duran would give a hell about raging right in throwing shots from all angles. Whitaker isn't a runner nor a hider, so he would try to evade and counter and tame the way he tamed legions of lesser fighters than Duran. I think that Duran's combination of skill and ferocity would cause a systems overload on any smooth and elusive savant. Why? Because Whitaker has neither the guns nor the strength to mount an offense or neutralize what's coming for 15 rounds.

(b) Whitaker would not do as well as Ray Leonard in a shoot out or DeJesus in a boxing exhibition -and his elusiveness isn't going to make the difference. Whitaker is a small man. Duran is considerably stronger and punches considerably harder. Whitaker is not a considerably better boxer -defensively or otherwise. Leonard could punch and was bigger. DeJesus could punch.

Whitaker would look great for a time. But Duran would be "forcing that artist to paint in a thunderstorm" and the paint's gonna start to run -or Whitaker is.

Duran by decision.

 

Excatly what do you mean "isnt a runner or a hider"?. Just looking to survive and prod with the odd jab?. You must also consider Duran isn't going to tame Whitaker the way he did with lesser fighters. Whitaker had superb stamina. Although depends on how certain individuals like ourselves see Duran being able to hit Whitaker often enough to slow him down. I can't see Whitaker slowing down with his own workrate. Duran would need to bang Whitaker with a hell of alot shots to take away his effectiveness. I don't think he can, not enough to outscore him.

You were doing well until, Whitaker not being able to do as well as De Jesus in a boxing exhibition. Lets get real here, Whitaker was a brilliant boxer, and to say he couldn't box as well as De Jesus is far from the mark. Maybe you meant to say it the other way around. Whitaker's jab is consistently rated on these threads as one of the best. While Whitaker was a defensive genius, his boxing ability was why he was able to dominate so many opponents over the distance. Scoring punches from a wide variety of angles. Piston like jab, flurries, bodyshots, lead left hands.

Whitaker is among the greatest pure boxers in history. Robinson, Pep, Ali, Hearns. Whitaker rightfully belongs in that company, De Jesus on the otherhand is several leagues below.

 

It's a complement. Whitaker doesn't run and he doesn't hide. He boxes in the pocket and uses skill and great talent to evade shots and offer his own.

Whitaker is among the greatest pure boxers ever. I give you that.

Perhaps I was unclear or perhaps you missed factoring in the context of the argument. Leonard and DeJesus had enough pop that Duran had to respect. Whitaker doesn't. Leonard and DeJesus could keep him at least temporarily at bay by boxing him. Whitaker, shorter, smaller, shorter reach, less power, less physical strength is not going to keep Duran at bay with anything but skill and finesse. That isn't enough to hold off Duran and history demonstrates that it isn't.

Leonard did very well against Duran in Montreal and DeJesus put him down twice with left hooks. Duran admitted the Leonard was the greatest fighter he ever faced in the press conference after Montreal and we all know how much he respected the Puerto Rican.

But Pep isn't beating Duran and neither is Whitaker for the same reasons. Deficient strength and power. Strength and/or power are critical ingredients to deal with Duran. Finesse ain't enough -no matter how much finesse there is.

Now that it is clear you misunderstood what I was saying, my friend, am I 'doing well'?

 

"Whitaker would not do as well as Ray Leonard in a shoot out or DeJesus in a boxing exhibition".

Well, you did say a shootout or a boxing exhibition. And Whitaker sure would be able to do much better than De Jesus when imposing a boxing strategy against Duran. Only your last reply did you add in that bit extra to explain more, and slightly adjust your orginal statement.

 

Agreed. The rematch against Duran was not a physical type of fight. And Whitaker had the adaptability in his approach to fight in a similar manner against Duran. This is where Stonehands has a rather distorted picture regarding Whitaker. He seems to think that Whitaker stands in front of opponents in the pocket, thus himself coming to the conclusion Whitaker's there for Duran to feast on. Wrong. Only during brief moments.

And being a runner isn't a bad thing anyway, as long as the fighter running is letting his hands go with scoring shots. A runner who's only in there for survial and not triggering offense would not be complimented IMO.

 

I see it's me against you and Robbi for round 2.

The reason why I brought up DeJesus and Leonard 1 is because both fought Duran when Duran was at or near prime. This is prime for prime.

You won't acknowledge the validity of the argument because you ignore the key element of the argument. Benitez packed more power than Whitaker and was quite larger. Same for Leonard.

I have already offered a recipe to defeat Duran. Skill, evasiveness, finess -combined with STRENGTH AND/OR POWER.

Wrong. They're punching aren't they? They weren't pulling their shots just so you could say that they outboxed him. Punching power was in their formula!

 

Don't try resorting to false accusations -I have been very consistent on two threads now on what it would take to beat Duran and what necessary ingredients Whitaker lacks.

Both you and Sweet Pea have yet to acknowledge on two threads anything directly addressing Whitaker's strength and power deficiencies. You shade the issue and change the subject.

 

Whether Whitaker is in the pocket or on wheels won't matter in the end. That argument is incidental to the point that is consistently being made and consistently ignored by the both of you. Duran will not have anything to fear with rushing at him incessantly nor with punching in vollies -as the rounds go on, his connect rate will be telling because he will believe that he can connect with relative impunity, at least compared to against Leonard/DeJesus.

The distortion that is clear here is that Duran is equivalent to Azumah Nelson or Ramirez. You are also distorting my argument. Leonard can run all night, the fact is that Duran knew that Leonard can swat and that didn't change.

I'll tell you what --Let's allow Whitaker to carry a brick in each glove. Then he wins.

 

Space creating jab? Fancy words won't make it a strong jab. Duran will consider it little more than a nuisance.

No, I'm saying that Whitaker couldn't hit like Leonard or DeJesus regardless of what style they use.

This argument is not reasonable. Just because a puncher chooses to box doesn't mean that they lose their punch! Perhaps you should review Robinson-Graziano for a reminder.

 

Yes, but is it only because you got bulled into the ropes like Duran would Whitaker, and like Hatton should Mayweather?

 

No discussion bears fruit if it is treated like a competition -- and that is coming from a Duran fan. You, Stonehands, seem to be looking to undermine and disregard the argument of your opposition at every turn instead of trying to see where they're coming from.

Don't try to win. Just discuss and give your point of view.