Where would you guys rate Lyoto Machida p4p? Is he higher than Penn? 1. Fedor 2. A Silva 3. GSP 4. Penn 5. Machida He's looked close to untouchable since he's came into the UFC, he's beaten Franklin and Penn before he joined. Secondly, which LHW do you think could beat him? (Anderson not included). Do you think with all his power Rampage would win this fight?
Not yet, the first 4 stays the same, Silva/GSP interchangable. Its very hard with Machida, hes Silvas caliber for sure so if Fedor retires or loses youll see him and Anderson 1 and 1a
Not quite ready to rank him there. Then again, he's only super elusive because of the GSP Vaseline trick he uses :nut
He hasn't faced the likes of Rampage, Liddell, Griffin, Evans, etc. Silva is a great win, Tito is a great win. But I wanna see him actually beat somebody worthy before putting him even in top 10.
I see him as damn near invincible at the weight (particularly because he and Anderson have a Quinton/Tito thing going).
ive got him at #3 now behind GSP and Fedor and anderson at #4. and all the power in the world wouldnt help rampage find him..
Based on competition, I don't rank him in the p4p top 10 yet. Similar to Cung Le, he has the ability but until he beats one of the elite of that division he's not getting in.
I kinda agree, but I have not really though about my own personal top 10 p4p, apart from the obvious top 4. If I did have him in I would probably squeze him in the lower half of the top 10. His is clearly talented and does have a few good wins. But like you said he needs to beat the top tier guys to cement his place. Cung Le still has a long way to go. Unlike Machida, he hasn't even fought or beaten guys in or near the top 10. He has talent but needs to leave Strikeforce asap and sign with the UFC he aint getting any younger.
BJ loses a top four spot for moving up in weight and getting beat by a top 3 p4p? Or is it because you think based on the dominant nature of that fight he's now too shot to make the list?
First of all, BJ is my favorite MMA fighter. But you can't deny Lyoto's resume. He's undefeated in the world's toughest MMA organization, and the most difficult weight class (205). He has victories over Franklin, Ortiz, Soko, Nakamura, Bonnar, and Penn. So far Machida has looked unbeatable. On the other hand, BJ got dominated by a guy whom many predicted he would beat. And it's not like 170 is untested waters for Penn. He has fought there before. Hell, his first fight with Georges was much more competitive than this one. Add to the fact that BJ loss to Hughes and St-Pierre while Machida was running through guys. I don't know about you, but victories over Soko, Ortiz, and Silva is more impressive than wins over Pulver, Stevenson, and Sherk.
I agree, machida has the talent to be the # 1 lb for lb but he has to beat other top dawgs at 205 lbs first. If he fights rampage-griffin and Evans and beat all 3 of them then he should be in the top 5 for sure.
Fair enough argument; but again I run into the same conundrum as when I discuss arbitrary p4p matters with the Boxing Forum folk: I generally disregard accomplishment in favor of demonstrated ability in determining pound-for-pound superiority, except as a measure of relativity. A matter of semantics, I suppose. When I use the term "p4p" I'm talking about strictly head to head ability based on how the manner in which opposition is beaten (not necessarily having beaten the best available opposition...though the curve is obviously graded such that the better the opposition the more a dominant victory counts for). This is usually met with "Well it's totally arbitrary and subjective to award status based on who you happen to think has demonstrated ability", but then it's no less relative IMO than contriving a hierarchy of quality of wins. Matter of semantics I guess. I don't interpret the term p4p as a formula taking both ability and resume into equal account; although I realize I'm in the minority here. In specific terms of head-to-head pound-for-pound ability, I revert to my original question of whether Machida ought to be ranked above a still peak version BJ, or if it takes BJ being a bit long in the tooth in cage years for Lyoto to surpass him (and obviously the associated question, is BJ shot or not based on his one-sided loss to his larger stronger fully-priming rival?) Don't mind me. I should've qualified my question with some sort of asterisk to indicate that my personal interpretation of the term p4p isn't aligned with the overwhelming majority's.
Interesting....ranking Machida that high, I don't necessarily disagree very strongly, however I can't put him above either Rampage or Rashad, but still respect your opinion...
