M. Spinks or McCallum

H2H Spinks for sure .. so much bigger ... P4P a tough call ...

 

I am a big Spinks fan at 175 for sure but while you're correct about his accomplishments, he only had 28 fights at 175. Guys like Charles, Loughran, Moore had close to that many over eighteen month windows against killer opposition .. Spinks also struggled with Lopez, Johnson and Davis .. he fought a technically smart but safety first fight against Qwai .. he absolutely moved up and squeezed out a decision against an aging Holmes , again to his credit but it was a matter of a aging champion vs a much younger , faster quirky stylist .. let's face it , it was a historic achievement but overrated in the scheme of things as some exceptional accomplishment ... a great fighter for sure but I'm not one of the guys to hand him top two or three all time status at 175 so quickly like many seem to do ..

 

Nobody believes Mikes wins over older Larry were anything less than that.

 

While i can see where you are coming from HG I'm not sure you can call yourself a big Spinks fan at 175 as your post is slanted to the negative and somewhat harsh.

Spinks may have only had *27 fights around 175 but he certainly packed some quality in. EMM and Qawi are two of the toughest outs going and Qawi was only a bee's prong off ATG and one could say he fought at an ATG level at his best. He did catch Eddie weight drained but he got the job done. His top end has a great like Foster covered for example. Lopez, Johnson, Davis, all very very good fighters and even the mid range guys like The Vonz were quite good.

You are right that he lacked some longevity there, absolutely. He did however cut a swathe thru the best available. Archie for sure has so much more on his resume but he also had some losses there. Quite reasonable considering he fought so often and against a fine array of talent as you allude. By the same token no-one is trying to thrust Spinks above Moore and Charles tho H2H he'd certainly be a live dog - against anyone. If Spinks picked up a loss in that shorter stint it would affect him quite a bit but the thing is he didn't so he has that on his side.

As always context must be utilized above all else.

He fought Lopez in just his 14th professional bout. Lopez was about the 6th best light heavyweight in the world in a very strong era and was always a tough night out for the very best. He was coming off a title shot loss but in that loss he pushed Saad to the absolute brink in an extraordinary battle. Spinks never looked like losing to Lopez and considering his lack of experience it was a very very impressive effort.

Johnson was also a top 6 175'er when Spinks fought him and 5 years later won the title. This was just Spinks 16th pro fight and obviously he was moving extremely quickly. Spinks is known for his slow mundane starts (often against lesser opposition)and he can be quite unimpressive until he gets belted and decides to wake the hell up. The fight is often over not much later. When he fought such dangerous guys like Qawi however he was on from the very first bell.

His KO of Marvin is actually one of the greatest one punch knockouts in history. Spectators at the fight said it sounded like a shotgun blast when it landed and some feared for his well being.

He struggled with Davis and was looking ahead to Qawi. Holmes struggled with plenty of lesser fighters, Louis did, Lewis did, they basically all did. That's boxing. Heck, Archie Moore got knocked out in his prime by a lesser fighter in 1 round.

Regarding Qawi you seem to imply the "safety first" is a negative. It's a huge plus and certainly a whole lot better than fighting Qawi's fight and losing. That Spinks could put his greatest weapon in the rack for most of the night due to it playing directly into Qawi's wheelhouse proves what a multi faceted adaptable fighting machine Spinks is. That was greatness right there and it was a tactical celebration. His versatility was something to behold.

Everyone knew Holmes was tiring more and more with every fight but virtually nobody thought a light heavyweight having his first ever fight at heavyweight would be the man to finally dethrone him. This was reflected in the odds with Spinks being a 6-1 underdog. Again it was an eye opening tactical effort from Spinks who again showed his immense versatility and ability to come up with the perfect gameplan. It can't have been easy for a guy used to having a big power and strength edge (usually height and reach as well) to fight with such caution and stealth. Regardless of Holmes decline it was a great achievement.

Cheers mate.

 

But Mc Callum later avenged that loss

 

Yes, but that doesn't make him as great as Spinks.

 

Pretty sure no one has claimed that.

 

Barely.

 

But it's crazy that people are even bringing it up as a response to me pointing out that Kalambay schooled him.
Kalambay was no longer the #1 middleweight when McCallum "avenged it" 3 years later (by razor thin margin at best).

Spinks is superior to McCallum in every measurable aspect of achievements.
He's also rated as superior 'head to head' at their respective fighting weights.

 

I think Spinks is greater, but that McCallum is the overrall better fighter.

 

No, I don't think it's crazy to say the he got one back. Kalambay got the better of their two fights overall, but I think it's worth to point out that McCallum did clearly better the other time around.

Sometimes someone has an off night. In other sports that's not even debatable. Yes, they were both older the other time around and bla, blah, blah. But just looking at the fight it's clear to see that you have two guys in excellent condition and that McCallum was much sharper than in their first fight. Sometimes one should take note of what's actually on film instead of just theorising about it.

 

McCallum isn't even a better fighter than Qawi, let alone Spinks.

McCallum has become absurdly overrated.

 

he is not. but it is not a landslide either IMO

 

I feel something along those lines too, I think.

 

Undisputed champion at light-heavyweight. Almost cleaned out a strong division.
Lineal champion at light-heavy AND heavyweight, dethroning a great champion in his HW debut.
One of the best 175 pound fighters ever, he would stand a great chance against any fighter weighing 175 pounds in the whole of history, barring none. It's not out of the question to call him "h2h #1" at 175 pounds.

McCallum. A very good all-round fighter but was never really proven #1 at any weight class.